Victims versus Psychopaths
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09-11-2011, 04:29 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
Lots of "equations" going around lately. Some I am quite fascinated with (ie. zero-state) though not fascinated enough to adopt the ideas just yet. Others, well, meh.

I have, however, been inspired to come up with my own math-combined-with-philosophy equation of my own:

Mabus + Trainwreck = H.O.C.

How am I doin?

Just visiting.

-SR
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09-11-2011, 05:18 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(07-11-2011 05:49 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Insanity, so called, not only provides a defense for many evil people, it also lines the pockets of psychiarists, lawyers, social workers and many others with gold. Insanity, so called, in at least some instances, is gearing itself officially,not to the needs of society in general, but to the greeds of our entrepreneurial elites.

It's an interesting topic but it's so seldom used (<1% of cases) and more often than not unsuccessful (3 in 4), that I'm not sure it's that big an issue.

(09-11-2011 04:29 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Lots of "equations" going around lately. Some I am quite fascinated with (ie. zero-state) though not fascinated enough to adopt the ideas just yet. Others, well, meh.

I have, however, been inspired to come up with my own math-combined-with-philosophy equation of my own:

Mabus + Trainwreck = H.O.C.

How am I doin?

Your parameters might be close, but simple addition fails to capture the nonlinearity. Wink

Breathing - it's more art than science.
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09-11-2011, 05:21 PM
 
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(09-11-2011 04:29 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Lots of "equations" going around lately. Some I am quite fascinated with (ie. zero-state) though not fascinated enough to adopt the ideas just yet. Others, well, meh.

I have, however, been inspired to come up with my own math-combined-with-philosophy equation of my own:

Mabus + Trainwreck = H.O.C.

How am I doin?

I could find no info on Mabus when I searched, so I can't give you a definitive answer, Stark, but the only way your equation could work is if Mabus had a reputation count of +29. Then 29-23=6 would be a correct equation! Big Grin
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09-11-2011, 05:21 PM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2011 05:25 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(09-11-2011 03:07 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  I have revived the "Adversarial Justice System' thread to reinforce one of my points in this thread: too many innocent people accused of horrible crimes.

Take a look there.

ZATAMON.
There is no need to pr emp what you think I might possibly say!

I still contend that there are some crimes so repugnant that they go beyond all bounds of human contemplation, considered attrocities, made by people who are capable of differentiating between gross perversity and normalcy, so called.
Can you or anyone prove these people are insane and unaware of their actions?

As a generalization, I see capital punishment as an affront to society,s credibility and agree with your contentions regarding jail time, as it presents itself , as a sick ad hoc patching up in most countries. It would be nice to fix up all the manipulating
and abhorrant aspects of the ruling elites, but how? We can be idealistic but we need to be pragmatic as well. To use an old Christian verse 'If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the pit'. ( Now don't say I am a theist).

AS for executing our most disgusting felons, I have changed my position (philosophers can do that). I had thought that where social unrest becomes of an intolerably perverse nature extreme action just might make us all stop and think a bit. Another point , as my Buddhist friends have raised, is that hatred, even of the most obnoxious, will, and has always, simply breed further hatred to the victim and also perhaps the perpetrator.

I enjoy open debate, and have no qualms about changing my position as essentially I see everything in a state of flux.
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09-11-2011, 05:37 PM
 
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(09-11-2011 05:21 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  ZATAMON.
There is no need to pr emp what you think I might possibly say!

Sorry about that, Mr Woof, I just wanted to make sure every angle was covered in my post, to prevent possible misunderstanding.

Quote:I still contend that there are some crimes so repugnant that they go beyond all bounds of human contemplation, considered attrocities, made by people who are capable of differentiating between gross perversity and normalcy, so called.
Can you or anyone prove these people are insane and unaware of their actions?

Unaware? -- No.
Insane? -- Yes.

It boils down to how you define insanity.

I won't bother with the medical definition because, in my mind (and ONLY in my mind) nobody who is committing those crimes could be considered sane. These acts are so destructive both on the social and individual level that they border on suicidal -- negating the sane impulse of individuals and societies to survive.

Quote:AS for executing our most disgusting felons, I have changed my position (philosophers can do that).

I am pleased to hear that and I hope I contributed to it to some extent. Smile

Quote:I enjoy open debate, and have no qualms about changing my position as essentially I see everything in a state of flux.

As do I.
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09-11-2011, 07:45 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(09-11-2011 04:29 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Lots of "equations" going around lately. Some I am quite fascinated with (ie. zero-state) though not fascinated enough to adopt the ideas just yet. Others, well, meh.

I have, however, been inspired to come up with my own math-combined-with-philosophy equation of my own:

Mabus + Trainwreck = H.O.C.

How am I doin?
Considering you weren't the engineer of that scrapheap and you skipped of the tracks without a scratch, I'd say you're on the side of angels.

Sanity is merely a normal, a mathematical average. Most functionality occurs in the fringe of the insane. Units with my degree of dysfunctionality used to go to the scrap heap from the production line; there was no error in this. There is also no error in the simplified arithmetic that a more advanced civilization has a greater tolerance for its deviants - Zatamon posited as much in his compassion thread where I was able to speak clearly.

If somebody were to drill a hole and have a peek inside this skull, it is likely one would find a non-standard signal processor that may or may not have found a methodology of restoring chemical balance as a function of will in the form of an occasional literary train-wreck.

Do not be alarmed. I am a professional.

The standard deviation of the previous function would have been to bark at Woof like a big dog for not knowing future and evil - but he's alright, the heat was dissipated by the non-standard formatting, which also consumed any malice lingering in the corners "up there in the attic of the skull."

Nothing to see here, folks. Keep it moving. Big Grin

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09-11-2011, 08:26 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
I am chiming in just to let everyone know that sanity is, we're I studying psychology, be the motivating factor. If I had the money I would commit to studying degrees of sanity.
I think it is almost impossible to state whether someone had committed an act while in a same frame of mind. I don't believe anyone is capable of doing anything while sane. Not the clinical definition. I think we are all insane as an evolutionary coping mechanism for our more metaphysical way of thinking. We allow dubious trains of thought so long as they help us function within societal norms. The only difference between "normal" people an those we deem as insane is the functionality of their insanity. Almost like a malfunction in their evolution.
To understand more what i mean let me demonstrate my claim using one of our favorite subjects religion. It is a clear example of not only subjective sanity acceptance but functional (for the most part) insanity. I mean the things the religious can allow as normal within the context of religion and only within that context is prime mental gymnastics. If it was anything else by would be locked up. But it is acceptable insanity within our society. My explanation is that they can accept the insanities of religious dogma simply because it soothes them when placed opposite the terrifying concept of pointlessness. To some the idea of accidental pointless existence is the most terrifying thought they can imagine. It seems easier to accept a god with no real explanation. I might be wrong but if I am right I think it puts a whole new spin on how to treat people deemed insane an also how to deal with the religious in the context of law and politics. It's hard to stand on a podium made from the insane.
So how could I condone the execution of someone who is also insane if I deem myself as insane? I can't exactly. But I have to place everything on a scale. Like I said there is insane and functionally insane. So ... Short answer Is I wouldn't be comfortable makin that choice. But if someone who had all the facts deemed it necessary I might be able to live with that decision.

Oh shit I don't think I made any sense.
Sorry.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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09-11-2011, 08:31 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
Sure it did. You said, and I paraphrase:

If god was a rabbit, a theist would be a Harvey.

You are querying society for a logical response and, more often than not, find your audience to be a wall. Regardless, your insanity is not dysfunctional to the point of advocating homicide.

Well said.

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10-11-2011, 06:47 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(09-11-2011 08:26 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Oh shit I don't think I made any sense.
Sorry.

Oh shit, I understood all of that. ... fuck me ... I will say that functional insanity requires a much more acute sense of balance. The stool that you're standing on while the noose is around your neck is rather wobbly. ... But I think it's the only way to really live. I mean if you haven't really considered offing yourself and what it would be not to be, you're just living by default. ... shit, now this feels like a topic for a different thread. Sorry.

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10-11-2011, 07:12 PM
RE: Victims versus Psychopaths
(09-11-2011 05:21 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(09-11-2011 03:07 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  I have revived the "Adversarial Justice System' thread to reinforce one of my points in this thread: too many innocent people accused of horrible crimes.

Take a look there.

ZATAMON.
There is no need to pr emp what you think I might possibly say!

I still contend that there are some crimes so repugnant that they go beyond all bounds of human contemplation, considered attrocities, made by people who are capable of differentiating between gross perversity and normalcy, so called.
Can you or anyone prove these people are insane and unaware of their actions?

As a generalization, I see capital punishment as an affront to society,s credibility and agree with your contentions regarding jail time, as it presents itself , as a sick ad hoc patching up in most countries. It would be nice to fix up all the manipulating
and abhorrant aspects of the ruling elites, but how? We can be idealistic but we need to be pragmatic as well. To use an old Christian verse 'If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the pit'. ( Now don't say I am a theist).

AS for executing our most disgusting felons, I have changed my position (philosophers can do that). I had thought that where social unrest becomes of an intolerably perverse nature extreme action just might make us all stop and think a bit. Another point , as my Buddhist friends have raised, is that hatred, even of the most obnoxious, will, and has always, simply breed further hatred to the victim and also perhaps the perpetrator.

I enjoy open debate, and have no qualms about changing my position as essentially I see everything in a state of flux.

I'm thinking Zat and I may share a common fault - a dislike of repeating ourselves. Of course, Zat can speak for himself.

The farce of criminally insane is exactly as I had outlined it earlier - pay no mind to the lip, I was hosing down the cockroaches of malice in my skull - I have no dislike of you.

I must assume that you are sane. There is no sin in this, as clinical insanity is largely dysfunctional. I have been called "one of the most rational people I know" by more than one psychiatrist; however, the occasional train-wreck is evidence enough of dysfunction.

From a sane perspective, the answer is simply - no. Acts you describe as heinous are carried out by individuals that are either clinically insane or rendered thusly by the passion of the moment.

The Miranda clause (right to representation regardless of income) is a joke. PD = prison directly, as we used to say when I wore orange. There is no "solution" other than to bang the head against the wall until the wall falls down. Yeah, most people just get a headache.

From a globalist perspective with extant technology - exile is the solution. Place like Siberia - full of cons, run by cons, for cons; and they'll get sorted.

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