View of the afterlife in Job
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06-08-2015, 01:51 PM (This post was last modified: 06-08-2015 01:55 PM by Alla.)
RE: View of the afterlife in Job
(06-08-2015 10:41 AM)Learner Wrote:  I've recently been reading Ehrman's textbook on the Bible (very good), and I have a question for other Bible-skeptics on this forum regarding the view of the afterlife in the poetic dialogues in Job. Ehrman states how there was no view of an afterlife, citing Job 14:10-14:

"But mortals die, and are laid low; humans expire, and where are they? As waters fail from a lake, and a river wastes away and dries up, so mortals lie down and do not rise again; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake or be roused out of their sleep. O that you would hide me in Sheol, that you would conceal me until your wrath is past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me! If mortals die, will they live again? All the days of my service I would wait until my release should come."

However, if Job doesn't have a view of the afterlife (I agree), how are we Bible skeptics to understand Job 19:25-27? "For I know that my Redeemer lives, and that at the last he will stand upon the earth; and after my skin has been thus destroyed, then in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see on my side, and my eyes shall behold, and not another." Does this imply life after death?

Job asked (see Job 14:14)
if man die, shall he live again?
then he answered in the same verse " all the days of my APPOINTED time(here on earth and then in spirit world) will I wait, TILL MY CHANGE COME(resurrection).

Resurrection is a change.

So, that is why Job (and not some kind of another person) wrote:

"For I know that my Redeemer(JESUS CHRIST) lives, and that at the last he will stand upon the earth; and after my skin has been thus destroyed, then in my flesh(change) I shall see God, whom I shall see on my side, and my eyes shall behold, and not another."

If you have more question feel free to ask.

Yes, there is life after death according to Job.

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06-08-2015, 01:55 PM
RE: View of the afterlife in Job
(06-08-2015 01:51 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 10:41 AM)Learner Wrote:  I've recently been reading Ehrman's textbook on the Bible (very good), and I have a question for other Bible-skeptics on this forum regarding the view of the afterlife in the poetic dialogues in Job. Ehrman states how there was no view of an afterlife, citing Job 14:10-14:

"But mortals die, and are laid low; humans expire, and where are they? As waters fail from a lake, and a river wastes away and dries up, so mortals lie down and do not rise again; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake or be roused out of their sleep. O that you would hide me in Sheol, that you would conceal me until your wrath is past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me! If mortals die, will they live again? All the days of my service I would wait until my release should come."

However, if Job doesn't have a view of the afterlife (I agree), how are we Bible skeptics to understand Job 19:25-27? "For I know that my Redeemer lives, and that at the last he will stand upon the earth; and after my skin has been thus destroyed, then in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see on my side, and my eyes shall behold, and not another." Does this imply life after death?

Job asked (see Job 14:14)
if man die, shall he live again?
then he answered in the same verse " all the days of my APPOINTED time(here on earth and then in spirit world) will I wait, TILL MY CHANGE COME(resurrection).

Resurrection is a change.

So, that is why Job (and not some kind of another person) wrote:

"For I know that my Redeemer(JESUS CHRIST) lives, and that at the last he will stand upon the earth; and after my skin has been thus destroyed, then in my flesh(change) I shall see God, whom I shall see on my side, and my eyes shall behold, and not another."

If you have more question feel free to ask.

Yes, it is life after death.

Don't ask the ignoramus Alla.
Psalm 39 :
"Turn your gaze away from me, that I may smile again,
before I depart, and am no more"

Psalm 115 :
The dead do not praise the Lord,
nor do any that go down into silence".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-08-2015, 01:59 PM (This post was last modified: 06-08-2015 02:04 PM by Alla.)
RE: View of the afterlife in Job
(06-08-2015 01:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Don't ask the ignoramus Alla.
Psalm 39 :
"Turn your gaze away from me, that I may smile again,
before I depart, and am no more"

Psalm 115 :
The dead do not praise the Lord,
nor do any that go down into silence".
In the Bible "dead" are either
1)spirits of dead people
or
2)dead flesh
Flesh of the dead is destroyed and can not praise the Lord(se Psalm 39, Psalm 115)
But SPIRITS of the dead can praise the Lord.
See New Testament were dead people(spirits) talk and they were visited by Jesus Christ Who preached the Gospel to them, which means they can hear and not only talk.

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06-08-2015, 02:08 PM
RE: View of the afterlife in Job
(06-08-2015 01:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 01:55 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Don't ask the ignoramus Alla.
Psalm 39 :
"Turn your gaze away from me, that I may smile again,
before I depart, and am no more"

Psalm 115 :
The dead do not praise the Lord,
nor do any that go down into silence".
In the Bible "dead" are either
1)spirits of dead people
or
2)dead flesh
Flesh of the dead is destroyed and can not praise the Lord(se Psalm 39, Psalm 115)
But SPIRITS of the dead can praise the Lord.
See New Testament were dead people(spirits) talk and they were visited by Jesus Christ Who preached the Gospel to them, which means they can hear and not only talk.

Nope. (Not that you care), but Jews (as ANY scholar of Hebrew culture can tell you, which YOU are not, clearly), thought that "shades" went to Sheol. They did not believe in "souls".

Sheol was not where Yahweh lived. When Saul has the Witch of Endor conjure Samuel's "shade", Saul asks the witch, "What do you see". She answers, "I see a DIVINE being, (the word is "elohim"), coming up out of the ground. (Only the witch could *see* or perceive the shade). Saul asks "What does he look like ?". She describes him. And the text then says, (just as the text in the New Testament does, (ie describes *recognition*) about the "Road to Emmaus" incident), "So Saul knew it was Samuel...etc" because of the description. The DEAD SHADE'S IDENTITY HAD TO BE INFERRED.

Alla, you really need to get an education BEFORE you start your idiotic preaching.
You are totally incompetent.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-08-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: View of the afterlife in Job
(06-08-2015 12:13 PM)Learner Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 11:34 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Also, don't forget the Bible has been translated over and over again. Here is what Job 19:25-27 says in the Torah:

"But I know that my Redeemer lives, and the last on earth, He will endure.
And after my skin, they have cut into this, and from my flesh I see judgment.
That I see for myself, and my eyes have seen and not a stranger; my kidneys are consumed within me."

That's helpful! Wow, that reads completely different. I have to realize I need to start checking the Jewish translations more to see how they render certain passages. The Christian Bibles clearly render this passage in a way that fits their theology more.

I often reference a Hebrew-Greek-English Interlinear Bible to cut through some of the obvious over-interpretations of certain passages. Sometimes it is good, sometimes it makes no sense whatsoever.

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06-08-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: View of the afterlife in Job
(06-08-2015 01:51 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 10:41 AM)Learner Wrote:  I've recently been reading Ehrman's textbook on the Bible (very good), and I have a question for other Bible-skeptics on this forum regarding the view of the afterlife in the poetic dialogues in Job. Ehrman states how there was no view of an afterlife, citing Job 14:10-14:

"But mortals die, and are laid low; humans expire, and where are they? As waters fail from a lake, and a river wastes away and dries up, so mortals lie down and do not rise again; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake or be roused out of their sleep. O that you would hide me in Sheol, that you would conceal me until your wrath is past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me! If mortals die, will they live again? All the days of my service I would wait until my release should come."

However, if Job doesn't have a view of the afterlife (I agree), how are we Bible skeptics to understand Job 19:25-27? "For I know that my Redeemer lives, and that at the last he will stand upon the earth; and after my skin has been thus destroyed, then in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see on my side, and my eyes shall behold, and not another." Does this imply life after death?

Job asked (see Job 14:14)
if man die, shall he live again?
then he answered in the same verse " all the days of my APPOINTED time(here on earth and then in spirit world) will I wait, TILL MY CHANGE COME(resurrection).

Resurrection is a change.

So, that is why Job (and not some kind of another person) wrote:

"For I know that my Redeemer(JESUS CHRIST) lives, and that at the last he will stand upon the earth; and after my skin has been thus destroyed, then in my flesh(change) I shall see God, whom I shall see on my side, and my eyes shall behold, and not another."

If you have more question feel free to ask.

Yes, there is life after death according to Job.

Resurrection in the sense of going to the netherworld/Sheol, yes. Job is not talking about Jesus. That is a christian construct.
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06-08-2015, 03:47 PM
RE: View of the afterlife in Job
(06-08-2015 02:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nope. (Not that you care), but Jews (as ANY scholar of Hebrew culture can tell you, which YOU are not, clearly), thought that "shades" went to Sheol. They did not believe in "souls".
Well, the Bible doesn't teach what they believe. I only explained what the Bible teach.
(06-08-2015 02:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Sheol was not where Yahweh lived.
I never said this. I said that Yahweh(Jesus Christ) visited Sheol or spirit world or world of the dead and preached the Gospel ACCORDING to the Bible.

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06-08-2015, 03:50 PM
RE: View of the afterlife in Job
(06-08-2015 02:40 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Job is not talking about Jesus. That is a christian construct.
Jesus is only one Redeemer or Savior according to the Bible. Jesus or Yahweh is Redeemer according to the Bible.
Job knew Who Jesus or Yahweh was - his Savior/Redeemer.

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06-08-2015, 03:54 PM
RE: View of the afterlife in Job
(06-08-2015 03:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(06-08-2015 02:40 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Job is not talking about Jesus. That is a christian construct.
Jesus is only one Redeemer or Savior according to the Bible. Jesus or Yahweh is Redeemer according to the Bible.
Job knew Who Jesus or Yahweh was - his Savior/Redeemer.

Jesus is savior according to the NT. Job is in the OT. Job did not know about Jesus.
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06-08-2015, 04:16 PM
RE: View of the afterlife in Job
(06-08-2015 03:54 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Jesus is savior according to the NT. Job is in the OT. Job did not know about Jesus.
Redeemer or Yahweh was not born yet on Earth that is why in the Old Testament times Yahweh was not called by His earthly name.
Job knew who Redeemer was.

P.S. Job according to the Book of Job knew that he will be resurrected(changed).

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