Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
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03-12-2014, 08:55 AM
Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
How is it that Christians use the virgin birth as one of their greatest examples of prophecy when the original passage itself was a failed prophecy: Isaiah 7 is where Christians get the whole 'and the virgin shall conceive' idea. Yet, the whole purpose of Isaiah 7:1-14 was that God was giving a sign that Israel and Syria would not defeat Ahaz. If you look in II Chronicles 28:1-5 though, you see that Israel and Syria did defeat Ahaz!

Anyone else ever notice this?

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03-12-2014, 09:18 AM
RE: Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
And that's just the tip of the iceberg, really. Here are a couple more failed biblical prophecies to ponder:

In Ezekiel 26, LORD said Tyre will be destroyed never to built again, yet it is still there today in Lebanon in the exact same place it always has been.

In Ezekiel 30:12, LORD said the Nile River will be dried up but that has never happened, it's still there today.

Again, just the tip of the iceberg.
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03-12-2014, 10:09 AM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2014 12:11 PM by RobbyPants.)
RE: Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
(03-12-2014 09:18 AM)Bear100 Wrote:  In Ezekiel 26, LORD said Tyre will be destroyed never to built again, yet it is still there today in Lebanon in the exact same place it always has been.

The trick they play with this one is to relabel what was and wasn't Tyre, because a nearby area was conquered.


(03-12-2014 09:18 AM)Bear100 Wrote:  In Ezekiel 30:12, LORD said the Nile River will be dried up but that has never happened, it's still there today.

This one is really weird. The stock answer is that God hasn't done it yet. Of course, context matters. Looking at the previous two verses:

Quote:10 “Thus says the Lord God:

I will put an end to the wealth[d] of Egypt,
by the hand of Nebuchadrez′zar king of Babylon.
11 He and his people with him, the most terrible of the nations,
shall be brought in to destroy the land;
and they shall draw their swords against Egypt,
and fill the land with the slain.

In Ezekiel 30, it is abundantly obvious that God was talking about events in the very near future. So, to maintain that that God just hasn't fulfilled the dry-up-the-Nile prophesy yet, God's stated position has to be "Egypt, I'm so pissed at you, I'm going to send Nebuchadrez′zar to fuck you up in the near future. Then, thousands of years from now, I'm going to dry up your river!"

I mean, what the actual fuck? This is how fundies maintain a 100% rate on prophesies?
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03-12-2014, 11:01 AM
RE: Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
The virgin birth claims hoists Christianity on it's own petard of exaggerated claims, the lineage of David descends through the father's bloodline, the virgin birth cuts the lineage of David and Jesus cannot possibly be the messiah because of that. This is one of many reasons why the Jews categorically reject Jesus as a messiah.




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03-12-2014, 11:21 AM
RE: Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
(03-12-2014 11:01 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  The virgin birth claims hoists Christianity on it's own petard of exaggerated claims, the lineage of David descends through the father's bloodline, the virgin birth cuts the lineage of David and Jesus cannot possibly be the messiah because of that. This is one of many reasons why the Jews categorically reject Jesus as a messiah.

I've never heard the full list of requirements for a Messiah; that video is a great resource. We never covered what the definition of a Messiah was during Sunday school; now I know why.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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03-12-2014, 11:39 AM
RE: Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
(03-12-2014 11:01 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  The virgin birth claims hoists Christianity on it's own petard of exaggerated claims, the lineage of David descends through the father's bloodline, the virgin birth cuts the lineage of David and Jesus cannot possibly be the messiah because of that. This is one of many reasons why the Jews categorically reject Jesus as a messiah.




Yep, always going to happen in a patriarchal world. Consider Though, I always found it interesting that in Jewish culture, offspring are traditionally raised in the mother's religion, whatever that might be. For instance, if a Jewish man weds a Muslim woman, the child is often raised in Islam. I have a friend who's father is an Arab Jew and his mother is Sri Lankan. I think he was lucky enough to have so many god stories overloading his childhood that he was atheist long before he ever became an adult. Wink

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04-12-2014, 12:03 PM
RE: Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
Why can't atheists make up their minds as to whether Isaiah 7 is a failed prophecy regarding a virgin birth or a prophecy regarding a "young woman"? I mean, really.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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04-12-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
(04-12-2014 12:03 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Why can't atheists make up their minds as to whether Isaiah 7 is a failed prophecy regarding a virgin birth or a prophecy regarding a "young woman"? I mean, really.

I doubt its really a big deal since its fiction.

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04-12-2014, 12:12 PM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2014 04:59 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
(04-12-2014 12:03 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Why can't atheists make up their minds as to whether Isaiah 7 is a failed prophecy regarding a virgin birth or a prophecy regarding a "young woman"? I mean, really.

Well just maybe it's BOTH.
Either way, it's senseless.
Actually it's a triple fail.

The prediction failed, the translation failed, AND the entire enterprise of "prophesy" is a monumental fail.
Post #5 : http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rgin+birth
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278
Many, if not most of the messiah figures were said to be born of virgins. 'Twas quite the fad to come from a non-knocked-up mommy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-12-2014, 12:13 PM
RE: Virgin Birth: Failed Prophecy
(04-12-2014 12:03 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Why can't atheists make up their minds as to whether Isaiah 7 is a failed prophecy regarding a virgin birth or a prophecy regarding a "young woman"? I mean, really.

It is not a "failed prophecy regarding a virgin birth". It is a failed prophecy regarding events in the time it was written. Christians then took this original failed prophecy, mistranslated the term, and presented it as new prophecy to try to build support for their new bullshit.

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