Virgin Mary and free will
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29-03-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: Virgin Mary and free will
(29-03-2015 05:41 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(29-03-2015 12:02 AM)Drich Wrote:  What in the bible makes you think we have Free will?

So you wouldn't use the free will excuse as the (incomplete) answer to the problem of evil?

So god's simply evil or anything god does can simply be defined as good?

As far as I can recall, Drich leans to god being good by definition, no matter what. He dismisses any understanding of morality that comes from humans as just "popular opinion" and refuses to even call god's commandments morality at all, instead demanding we all play along and call it "righteousness," because he's an arrogant sod who thinks he gets to dictate the terms of the game.

This position has led him to defend genocide and slavery- the latter through a series of bizarre, poorly thought out tu coque fallacies-, to pray that people are struck with diseases so that their vulnerability might lead them to god and, on one memorable occasion, to assert that homosexuality is a worse thing than slavery, because god prattles on about the former being bad in the bible, while the latter is perfectly fine in the same book.

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29-03-2015, 09:29 AM
RE: Virgin Mary and free will
(29-03-2015 12:13 AM)Esquilax Wrote:  
(29-03-2015 12:02 AM)Drich Wrote:  What in the bible makes you think we have Free will?

What anywhere makes you think you're the only christian being addressed? You got a problem with the free will argument, then take it up with the theists who use it, not the atheists who just have the temerity to exist in a universe in which your fellow christians sometimes use that argument.

And what makes you think I am trying to suppress anyother Christian's beliefs? There is nothing in believing freewill that would invalidate ones faith.

I simply pointed out that free will is not a biblical precept.

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29-03-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: Virgin Mary and free will
(29-03-2015 05:41 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(29-03-2015 12:02 AM)Drich Wrote:  What in the bible makes you think we have Free will?

So you wouldn't use the free will excuse as the (incomplete) answer to the problem of evil?

So god's simply evil or anything god does can simply be defined as good?

What makes you think there is a problem with evil?

Why can't evil be apart of God's intended plan?

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29-03-2015, 09:31 AM
RE: Virgin Mary and free will
(29-03-2015 06:55 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(29-03-2015 12:02 AM)Drich Wrote:  What in the bible makes you think we have Free will?

Who said anything about the bible? Shoo!

The op did sport, do try and keep up.

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29-03-2015, 09:46 AM
RE: Virgin Mary and free will
(29-03-2015 08:50 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  Well, if we're talking specifically about the Gospels, to be fair, she did say yes.

Not only she said yes to having a baby and naming it Jesus, but she also said yes after the angel explained the "how", since she was objecting that she never had a man. That's Luke 1:26-38.

That is, if we are discussing about what the Gospel says literally, then I think it's fairly clear.

I don't think it is quite so clear. Saying "I am willing" after being told that this was going to happen isn't really the same as saying "yes". It isn't like god asked first, he flat out told her how it would be. The fact that she submitted could be acceptance of the inevitable and not actually consent.

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29-03-2015, 09:49 AM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2015 10:44 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Virgin Mary and free will
(29-03-2015 09:30 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(29-03-2015 05:41 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  So you wouldn't use the free will excuse as the (incomplete) answer to the problem of evil?

So god's simply evil or anything god does can simply be defined as good?

What makes you think there is a problem with evil?

Why can't evil be apart of God's intended plan?

There's not, the problem of suffering in the world is clear proof that god doesn't exist. It's a problem if you wish to assert a deity has any influence in the world or that it's part of his plan. How would the world functioning with no supernatural influence be distinguishable from this alleged plan?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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29-03-2015, 10:10 AM
RE: Virgin Mary and free will
(29-03-2015 09:46 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I don't think it is quite so clear. Saying "I am willing" after being told that this was going to happen isn't really the same as saying "yes". It isn't like god asked first, he flat out told her how it would be. The fact that she submitted could be acceptance of the inevitable and not actually consent.

Let's be reasonable here: "I'm willing" is certainly not a "no". You can argue she didn't just say "yes", but if you're saying that she wasn't really accepting, I cannot agree with you there.

And as far as the acceptance issue goes, there's nothing to suggest that it is as you said.

To be honest, I don't think this passage is the best example the OP could have chosen.

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29-03-2015, 10:16 AM
RE: Virgin Mary and free will
(29-03-2015 09:29 AM)Drich Wrote:  And what makes you think I am trying to suppress anyother Christian's beliefs? There is nothing in believing freewill that would invalidate ones faith.

I simply pointed out that free will is not a biblical precept.

I never said you were suppressing anything. What I said was that your contention here has nothing to do with the argument in the OP, since he agrees with you that free will is an ineffective defense of christian theism, though for different reasons. You're free to point out that free will isn't a biblical concept, but that doesn't stop other christians from using the free will defense, which means it's entirely rational to have some refutation of it.

What you want to be doing is pointing that out to the christians who use the free will argument, not the atheists who construct arguments against it.
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29-03-2015, 10:36 AM
RE: Virgin Mary and free will
(29-03-2015 09:31 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(29-03-2015 06:55 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Who said anything about the bible? Shoo!

The op did sport, do try and keep up.

I wrote the OP, moron, and I never mentioned the bible.

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29-03-2015, 10:39 AM
RE: Virgin Mary and free will
(29-03-2015 10:36 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(29-03-2015 09:31 AM)Drich Wrote:  The op did sport, do try and keep up.

I wrote the OP, moron, and I never mentioned the bible.

Fail on so many levels by Dripshit - he even used my remark to him to try to keep up.

Unoriginal, unintelligent, and a liar. The perfect example of a Christian.

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