Virgin birth
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18-10-2011, 11:11 AM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2011 11:16 AM by ghostexorcist.)
Virgin birth
A moderator at another forum I frequent started a thread about virgin births in snakes and other reptiles. This is the article that they linked to:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44930854/ns/...p2tGNQ4iDd

There are a number of comments at the bottom of the article that make it clear that some people have tried to connect this to the story of Jesus' birth. Likewise, there is one person (let's call them Troy) on the aforementioned thread who has tried, covertly, to do the same. When someone said that it was impossible in mammals, including humans, Troy questioned why. When a more scientifically-minded person gave an explanation on how the 46 chromosomes (23 from mom and 23 from dad) are needed to create a human, Troy answered with this article about how a rat was born from a virgin birth:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn49...ology.html

What they failed to mention or realize is that the offspring came about from the scientific manipulation of genes. The article has this to say:

Quote:Kaguya was created by combining the genetic material of two egg cells. This would not normally work, a fact evidenced by decades of studies into the phenomenon of parthenogenesis, also known as virgin birth.

In parthenogenesis, the egg becomes the sole source of genetic material for the creation of an embryo. It is a mode of reproduction in some species, though not in mammals. In mammals parthenogenesis can begin if an egg is accidentally or experimentally activated as if it had been fertilised - but this parthenote never grows past a few days.

This is because of there a biological phenomenon known as imprinting. During sperm and egg formation in mammals, certain genes necessary for embryo development are shut down with a series of chemical marks, or imprints, some in the sperm, other in the egg. Only when sperm and egg meet are all of the key genes available, allowing proper development.

But Tomohiro Kono and colleagues at the Tokyo University of Agriculture in Tokyo, Japan, circumvented this imprinting barrier by manipulating the nucleus of a female egg to make it more male-like.

I really have to laugh when people try to pull stuff like this. They really want the virgin birth story to be true, so they make it true (even if it isn't). Firstly, I honestly can't see how people equate reptiles to humans. There is no comparison at all. Then there is the gene manipulation thing. Laboratory experiments and nature are two different things!
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18-10-2011, 03:11 PM
RE: Virgin birth
Lets assume that this proved that the virgin mary had baby jesus

Wouldn't it also mean that it would be nothing special?
Apparently Yahweh is running around humping anything and everything...sort of like Zeus, but with more bestiality.
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19-10-2011, 01:01 PM
RE: Virgin birth
Maybe he just goes around to every species he finds and declares himself god to them. Then he has nasty sex with one of the creatures and makes a spawn of his loins. He says this child is his only son, who will save them from their sins. It's just a gag. Some horny god teenager humping stuff.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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19-10-2011, 01:54 PM
RE: Virgin birth
Mary was also immaculately conceived. Mary had to be totally without original sin so, God impregnated Mary's Mom, and then impregnated his own offspring, so she could give birth to the kid that would save the world.
Ik. Sad

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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19-10-2011, 10:49 PM
RE: Virgin birth
From a previous post of mine ....
2. The so-called "virgin birth" is one of the PRIME examples where there is development of an off-the-wall notion, based on a translation, of a MIS-translation, of a translation, which is then taken out of context, and solidified as doctrine, and driven over the cliff.

To wit :
a. Background :
Isaiah 7 talks about the history of King Ahaz, son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, who was king of Judah. At the time, King Rezin of Aram and Pekah, son of Remaliah, King of Israel, marched up to fight against Jerusalem, and the campaign was long and protracted. See the Syro-Ephraimite War, (Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syro-Ephraimite_War ), and it happened in the 8th Century (734) BC. When Ahaz was loosing faith, Isaiah went to visit him, and told him to "buck up", keep the faith, and continue the war, and told him that the SIGN from god, that they were favored, was that one of his wives, (a "woman of marriageable age") would be found to be with child. The SIGN was the CHILD, (and NOT the manner of the birth). ...."And they shall name him Emmanuel" which means "god is with us". The CHILD was the SIGN.

Any devout Jew in the time of the Roman occupation, (around 60 AD), would know that story, from Isaiah, and when they heard the words "a woman, (of marriageable age) will be found to be with child" they would connect the stories in their brains, and recognize that the gospel text's intention was to remind them of the Isaiah story, and would "harken" back to it, and realize the intent of the author was to claim that THIS child also was a sign. The general intent of the Gospel of Matthew was to claim the fulfillment of the various prophesies regarding the messiah, and this one was another one of those claims/stories of fulfillment.

b. The word "virgin" is a mistranslation, of a translation. So WE have a translation, of a mis-translation, of a translation. Matthew, writing in Greek about the "virgin birth" of Jesus, quotes the Septuagint text of Isaiah 7:14-16, which uses the Greek word "παρθένος" (parthenos,), (we still use the term "parthenogenesis") while the original Hebrew text has "עלמה" (almah), which has the slightly wider meaning of an unmarried, betrothed,or newly wed woman such as in the case of Ahaz' betrothed Abijah, daughter of Zechariah. He NEVER meant to imply that he was asserting "gynecological" claims, and THAT whole business was "off-the-wall", a mistranslation, taken to ridiculous extremes, by interpreters who missed the point. THE CHILD was the sign.

Also interesting that Matthew (1:25) only says that Joseph "knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son". It does NOT say she REMAINED a virgin. (??)

See also : Mother Goddess, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_goddess ) and Joseph Campbell, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goddess ) and Courtly Love, ( http://cla.calpoly.edu/~dschwart/engl513...ourtly.htm ). The business of Mary, and her idealized state, was extremely important in the civilization/culture of the West, and in some circles remains very important today, (Lourdes & claims of "Marian" apparitions" etc., etc.)

Over and out. Cool

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21-10-2011, 04:37 PM
RE: Virgin birth
Well , my sick imagination is kinda kicking in here , but if semen is placed on the female vulva , (since women can get pregnant in a bath of water - sperm can swim well) can't she get pregnant even if she is a virgin ?

That would make the virgin birth plausible , but Jesus's mom kinda of a fetishist. Big Grin

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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21-10-2011, 05:30 PM
RE: Virgin birth
(21-10-2011 04:37 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  Well , my sick imagination is kinda kicking in here , but if semen is placed on the female vulva , (since women can get pregnant in a bath of water - sperm can swim well) can't she get pregnant even if she is a virgin ?

That would make the virgin birth plausible , but Jesus's mom kinda of a fetishist. Big Grin

Have you ever watched a delivery ? Confused

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
"And you quit footing the bill for these nations that are oil rich - we're paying for some of their *squirmishes* that have been going on for centuries" - Sarah Palin
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22-10-2011, 11:26 AM
RE: Virgin birth
(21-10-2011 05:30 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-10-2011 04:37 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  Well , my sick imagination is kinda kicking in here , but if semen is placed on the female vulva , (since women can get pregnant in a bath of water - sperm can swim well) can't she get pregnant even if she is a virgin ?

That would make the virgin birth plausible , but Jesus's mom kinda of a fetishist. Big Grin

Have you ever watched a delivery ? Confused

Not really. Why ? Did I mess up that joke that badly ? Sad

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

Proud of my genetic relatives Big Grin
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22-10-2011, 12:47 PM
RE: Virgin birth
(22-10-2011 11:26 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  
(21-10-2011 05:30 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-10-2011 04:37 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  Well , my sick imagination is kinda kicking in here , but if semen is placed on the female vulva , (since women can get pregnant in a bath of water - sperm can swim well) can't she get pregnant even if she is a virgin ?

That would make the virgin birth plausible , but Jesus's mom kinda of a fetishist. Big Grin

Have you ever watched a delivery ? Confused

Not really. Why ? Did I mess up that joke that badly ? Sad

No not really. I got it. I didn't mean it sarcastically. I was just thinking, "maybe the first part may be possible, but there is no way the result is possible, and things remain "intact". Too much medical background here. Sorry. WAY too analytical, as usual. Blush

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
"And you quit footing the bill for these nations that are oil rich - we're paying for some of their *squirmishes* that have been going on for centuries" - Sarah Palin
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23-10-2011, 03:42 PM
RE: Virgin birth
(22-10-2011 12:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-10-2011 11:26 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  
(21-10-2011 05:30 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-10-2011 04:37 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  Well , my sick imagination is kinda kicking in here , but if semen is placed on the female vulva , (since women can get pregnant in a bath of water - sperm can swim well) can't she get pregnant even if she is a virgin ?

That would make the virgin birth plausible , but Jesus's mom kinda of a fetishist. Big Grin

Have you ever watched a delivery ? Confused

Not really. Why ? Did I mess up that joke that badly ? Sad

No not really. I got it. I didn't mean it sarcastically. I was just thinking, "maybe the first part may be possible, but there is no way the result is possible, and things remain "intact". Too much medical background here. Sorry. WAY too analytical, as usual. Blush

A virgin is just a person who has never had sexual intercourse, not a torn hymen.
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