Virginity
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-10-2013, 02:33 AM
RE: Virginity
(11-10-2013 12:25 AM)amyb Wrote:  I can't say I see a definite relationship between one's attractiveness and the number of sexual partners one has had, no.

Physical attractiveness is correlated with the number of sexual partners one has had.[1][2][3][4] Certainly there are outliers but overall the correlation holds.

Quote:Men can have STDs too, you know. And yet I've never heard women going on about how they don't want to sleep with a man who's had a previous sexual partner.

I have. See also this.

Quote:But anyway, I don't think one's value as a person or as a potential girlfriend has anything to do with whether or not one has had sex before.

Neither do I.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2013, 03:01 AM
RE: Virginity
(11-10-2013 01:06 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It's a power fantasy, I imagine in much the same way that rape is. The allure is from power, in this case the power of knowledge and experience. Part of that is also the very base enjoyment of conquest, of marking one's 'territory'. I really do think it's more a power trip than anything else, and is fed into by many cultures. How acceptable (and even admired) is it for a man to show his sexual prowess with multiple partners? How many of those same cultures have a cult like obsession with female virginity (and would label the woman a 'slut' or worse for exhibiting the admired male behavior)? Notice too that there isn't a Bible passage about stoning a non-virgin husband to death on his father's doorstep. Even the very act itself has overtones of male dominance, as a female losing her virginity is painful while for men it isn't. The whole thing reeks of misogyny, entitlement, and viewing women as less than equals. Dodgy

The universal valorisation of female virginity suggests otherwise. Refer Trivers' Parental Investment Model. See also Bateman's Principle. To put the matter crudely, the universal human valorisation of female virginity is an attempt to minimise the chances of cuckoldry,i.e. male investment in the rearing of someone elses child.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2013, 03:17 AM
RE: Virginity
(11-10-2013 03:01 AM)Chippy Wrote:  The universal valorisation of female virginity suggests otherwise. Refer Trivers' Parental Investment Model. See also Bateman's Principle. To put the matter crudely, the universal human valorisation of female virginity is an attempt to minimise the chances of cuckoldry,i.e. male investment in the rearing of someone elses child.


Fair enough and good points. But likewise just as rape has certain evolutionary advantages, that doesn't make it socially or morally acceptable by our standards today. Do rapist today rape for the same evolutionary procreative drives? I've heard that rape, in modern context, is far more often about power fantasies than just sexual gratification. If that is true, then the underlying drive of rape has changed. If that's possible with rape, is it also possible for valuation for virginity? I'm not sure, but I'd be interested to find out, and honestly wouldn't be surprised either way. I can see the 'conquest of a virgin' feeding into the same power fantasy that rapists supposedly indulge in to motivate their actions.


Sorry I don't have any concrete links and evidence, so take that for what you will; the fitting together of the pieces I think I have in a way that I think makes sense. I could be entirely wrong here.


Also...

(11-10-2013 02:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I don't know what EvolutionKills said because I have him on my ignore list.


Booyah... Drinking Beverage

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2013, 04:20 AM
RE: Virginity
(11-10-2013 03:17 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Fair enough and good points. But likewise just as rape has certain evolutionary advantages, that doesn't make it socially or morally acceptable by our standards today.

Of course.

Quote:Do rapist today rape for the same evolutionary procreative drives? I've heard that rape, in modern context, is far more often about power fantasies than just sexual gratification.

AFAIK that is a myth that was created and promulgated by radical feminists such as Andrea Dworkin. I knew this to be a myth when I was an undergraduate and contemporary criminology textbooks such as this repeat what I know to be the case. Rape is primariy motivated by a desire for sexual gratification but rapists have anti-social personality traits so their self-serving impulses are unrestrained. See also Sex Offenses and Offenders: An Analysis of Data on Rape and Sexual Assault; rapists are generally otherwise felonious even if their rape conviction is disregarded and that is consistent with their anti-sociality.

Quote:If that is true, then the underlying drive of rape has changed. If that's possible with rape, is it also possible for valuation for virginity? I'm not sure, but I'd be interested to find out, and honestly wouldn't be surprised either way.

Bear in mind that it is the contention of gene-centric theory and evolutionary psychology that humans (and other animals) don't have full conscious access to their sexual motivations. A well-developed and symmetrical mandible and maxilla are considered universally attractive and this preference defies introspective efforts but begins to make sense only when its likely evolutionary origins are considered. The rapist may tell you that he rapes because of A, B and C but the evolutionary psychologist tells us that these are at best proximate (vs. distal) causes.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2013, 05:21 AM
RE: Virginity
(11-10-2013 04:20 AM)Chippy Wrote:  AFAIK that is a myth that was created and promulgated by radical feminists such as Andrea Dworkin. I knew this to be a myth when I was an undergraduate and contemporary criminology textbooks such as this repeat what I know to be the case. Rape is primariy motivated by a desire for sexual gratification but rapists have anti-social personality traits so their self-serving impulses are unrestrained. See also Sex Offenses and Offenders: An Analysis of Data on Rape and Sexual Assault; rapists are generally otherwise felonious even if their rape conviction is disregarded and that is consistent with their anti-sociality.


Bear in mind that it is the contention of gene-centric theory and evolutionary psychology that humans (and other animals) don't have full conscious access to their sexual motivations. A well-developed and symmetrical mandible and maxilla are considered universally attractive and this preference defies introspective efforts but begins to make sense only when its likely evolutionary origins are considered. The rapist may tell you that he rapes because of A, B and C but the evolutionary psychologist tells us that these are at best proximate (vs. distal) causes.

Thanks for the information, I'll have to check that out.

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2013, 07:07 AM
RE: Virginity
Ignore list? What is this and how to I put blowme on it?

Cuz I'm real mature like that. You are a 2 year old, blowme. The slight of hand argument is obnoxious and passive aggressive. You get to irritate people and be passively insulting while you deny accountability for it.

Your comparison about havig sex with the football team and the water boy for good measure, only supports the double standard. A football star can fuck all the cheerleaders, and the cheer captain, and be considered a stud.

The amount of sexual partners a woman has vs a man is completely irrevant to her value. She can have as many casual partners as she desires because a man can.

A man who is upset by her sexual experience is a man that is insecure about his sexual skills. Jealousy is an undesirable trait.

I would say that a woman with sexual experience would be more like the Bentley than the infinity. A virgin (infinity) is not going to be as smooth of a ride as a Bentley. First time sex is awkward, uncoordinated, and subdued. An infinity doesn't hit the top speed of a Bentley, nor does it have the handling of a Bentley. Your analogy is stupid.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Cathym112's post
11-10-2013, 07:18 AM
RE: Virginity
(11-10-2013 04:20 AM)Chippy Wrote:  AFAIK that is a myth that was created and promulgated by radical feminists such as Andrea Dworkin. I knew this to be a myth when I was an undergraduate and contemporary criminology textbooks such as this repeat what I know to be the case. Rape is primariy motivated by a desire for sexual gratification but rapists have anti-social personality traits so their self-serving impulses are unrestrained. See also Sex Offenses and Offenders: An Analysis of Data on Rape and Sexual Assault; rapists are generally otherwise felonious even if their rape conviction is disregarded and that is consistent with their anti-sociality.


Bear in mind that it is the contention of gene-centric theory and evolutionary psychology that humans (and other animals) don't have full conscious access to their sexual motivations. A well-developed and symmetrical mandible and maxilla are considered universally attractive and this preference defies introspective efforts but begins to make sense only when its likely evolutionary origins are considered. The rapist may tell you that he rapes because of A, B and C but the evolutionary psychologist tells us that these are at best proximate (vs. distal) causes.

I disagree that rape is about sexual gratification. While sexual gratification can be achieved, it is not the primary impulse. Power, I believe, is the primary impulse.


http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin...myths.html

Rape is also not sex. It's an act of violence.
For example, a rape of a man by another man does not mean that the rapist is gay.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2013, 07:33 AM
RE: Virginity
(11-10-2013 07:07 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Ignore list? What is this and how to I put blowme on it?

Cuz I'm real mature like that. You are a 2 year old, blowme. The slight of hand argument is obnoxious and passive aggressive. You get to irritate people and be passively insulting while you deny accountability for it.

Your comparison about havig sex with the football team and the water boy for good measure, only supports the double standard. A football star can fuck all the cheerleaders, and the cheer captain, and be considered a stud.

The amount of sexual partners a woman has vs a man is completely irrevant to her value. She can have as many casual partners as she desires because a man can.

A man who is upset by her sexual experience is a man that is insecure about his sexual skills. Jealousy is an undesirable trait.

I would say that a woman with sexual experience would be more like the Bentley than the infinity. A virgin (infinity) is not going to be as smooth of a ride as a Bentley. First time sex is awkward, uncoordinated, and subdued. An infinity doesn't hit the top speed of a Bentley, nor does it have the handling of a Bentley. Your analogy is stupid.


[derail]

Fuck Infinity and Bentley, all I need are two Hondas.

[Image: honda-fit-13.jpg]

[Image: 2013-honda-cb11002.jpg]


A new Fit (with a 5-speed manual) for the winter, and a CB1100 for the rest of the year. Combined MSRP under $26K. That CB1100 is damn sexy, and one of the best standard motorcycles on the market (super retro too).

[/derail]

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2013, 02:53 PM
RE: Virginity
(11-10-2013 07:07 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  The amount of sexual partners a woman has vs a man is completely irrevant to her value. She can have as many casual partners as she desires because a man can.

You would like it to be this way, but just because you see it that way doesn't mean the rest of society sees it that way.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-10-2013, 03:19 PM
RE: Virginity
(11-10-2013 07:07 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Ignore list? What is this and how to I put blowme on it?

Cuz I'm real mature like that. You are a 2 year old, blowme. The slight of hand argument is obnoxious and passive aggressive. You get to irritate people and be passively insulting while you deny accountability for it.

Click on name on a post, upper left. Member info will come up. On the left you can click to add to buddy list or ignore list.

It's kind of one-click peace.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: