Visiting my family again.
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29-06-2014, 12:04 PM
Visiting my family again.
So for those that don't know I recently came out to my folks last year about my atheism. In doing so literally every time I've been around my dad he tries to convert me(usually when he's good and drunk). So every time I even tried to explain my point he starts getting upset and tries to talk over me basically repeating "man there is a God don't even say that" over and over.

Of course this time I'm going with my wife(who is also a christian) so I know he's going to see this as some sort of opportunity to gang up on me. I know my wife stays out of it and usually in most arguments agrees with my points.

Usually my dad starts this whole how do you know it's not true battle. Lately I've been doing a lot of reading primarily the bible and researching. One thing I've come to understand is about the burden of proof. This of course is my starting point once he goes there.

The two questions I usually get is where did we come from and what happens when we die when he tries to question my atheism. So for the first question, Atheism is not by default the proclamation that evolution is how we got here. Atheism and evolution often time are usually thought of on the same path but they are two totally different things. Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity. Evolution is the change in inherited characteristics of biological population over a succession of generations NOT the explanation on the origin of life. Two very different things. To answer the question of where did all life come from it is still unknown but there are a few theories backed up by evidence that can be reproduced.

To the question of what happens when we die same answer.....we don't know. Besides what happens to your body we have no evidence of a actual soul or and afterlife so there is no reason to think that.

I just wanted to share my positions and see what you guy's thoughts. Hopefully my dad doesn't even go there though.
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29-06-2014, 04:16 PM
RE: Visiting my family again.
(29-06-2014 12:04 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  So for those that don't know I recently came out to my folks last year about my atheism. In doing so literally every time I've been around my dad he tries to convert me(usually when he's good and drunk). So every time I even tried to explain my point he starts getting upset and tries to talk over me basically repeating "man there is a God don't even say that" over and over.

Of course this time I'm going with my wife(who is also a christian) so I know he's going to see this as some sort of opportunity to gang up on me. I know my wife stays out of it and usually in most arguments agrees with my points.

Usually my dad starts this whole how do you know it's not true battle. Lately I've been doing a lot of reading primarily the bible and researching. One thing I've come to understand is about the burden of proof. This of course is my starting point once he goes there.

The two questions I usually get is where did we come from and what happens when we die when he tries to question my atheism. So for the first question, Atheism is not by default the proclamation that evolution is how we got here. Atheism and evolution often time are usually thought of on the same path but they are two totally different things. Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity. Evolution is the change in inherited characteristics of biological population over a succession of generations NOT the explanation on the origin of life. Two very different things. To answer the question of where did all life come from it is still unknown but there are a few theories backed up by evidence that can be reproduced.

To the question of what happens when we die same answer.....we don't know. Besides what happens to your body we have no evidence of a actual soul or and afterlife so there is no reason to think that.

I just wanted to share my positions and see what you guy's thoughts. Hopefully my dad doesn't even go there though.

First, you should understand why your Dad gets angry with you. To him, saying 'There is no God' means no afterlife. And that's scary for him and he's angry that you'd scare him like that.
Next, explain why you think he deserves to know the truth. Ask some questions. Like, "If you respect someone and care about them, shouldn't you be honest with them? ....Even if the truth is painful?" "Would you rather I lie to you to spare your feelings?" "How would you feel if you found out I was lying?".
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29-06-2014, 04:32 PM
RE: Visiting my family again.
(29-06-2014 12:04 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  To the question of what happens when we die same answer.....we don't know. Besides what happens to your body we have no evidence of a actual soul or and afterlife so there is no reason to think that.

Ask what happens when he is put under anesthetic or what happens to someone suffering from a neurodegenerative disease.

Evidence is that our brains are responsible for our consciousness, memory and sense of identity. If there was such a thing as a soul responsible for the above then anesthetic and neurodegenerative diseases wouldn't have the effect that they do.
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29-06-2014, 04:46 PM
RE: Visiting my family again.
It might be better to not engage him at all, especially if he's been drinking. Simply tell him you don't want to talk about it. If he insists, ask him if you could ever change his mind,(I'm guessing he'll say no) and tell him he'll never change yours so there's no point in arguing about it.
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29-06-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Visiting my family again.
(29-06-2014 04:46 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  It might be better to not engage him at all, especially if he's been drinking. Simply tell him you don't want to talk about it. If he insists, ask him if you could ever change his mind,(I'm guessing he'll say no) and tell him he'll never change yours so there's no point in arguing about it.

That seems like the best idea honestly because every time we argue about this I lose so much respect for him. It's like this great man I love is scared of something that's not even there...I can't even be around him after seeing the fear in his eyes as I start making sense and he doesn't want to offend his God by even questioning things. Undecided
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29-06-2014, 05:18 PM
RE: Visiting my family again.
(29-06-2014 05:12 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  
(29-06-2014 04:46 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  It might be better to not engage him at all, especially if he's been drinking. Simply tell him you don't want to talk about it. If he insists, ask him if you could ever change his mind,(I'm guessing he'll say no) and tell him he'll never change yours so there's no point in arguing about it.

That seems like the best idea honestly because every time we argue about this I lose so much respect for him. It's like this great man I love is scared of something that's not even there...I can't even be around him after seeing the fear in his eyes as I start making sense and he doesn't want to offend his God by even questioning things. Undecided

Maybe you'll both have a pleasant visit this time. Thumbsup
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29-06-2014, 06:13 PM
RE: Visiting my family again.
You could say "Ya know, I really wish with all my heart that there was a god, because then we wouldn't need firemen to put out fires. We wouldn't need policemen to investigate crimes like rape, murder, theft, assault. We wouldn't need lawyers, nor would we need justice. We wouldn't need to feed millions of starving children. We wouldn't need to believe because he would be in our face every damn single day making the moral decision to help someone in need or to ignore it. I wish with all my heart that the god you believe in had my morals, because I can't ignore people who need my help in emergency situations. You didn't raise me to be a selfish asshole. You taught me right from wrong and for that I am thankful. Now pass the fucking mashed potatoes

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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30-06-2014, 07:51 AM
RE: Visiting my family again.
(29-06-2014 04:46 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  It might be better to not engage him at all, especially if he's been drinking. Simply tell him you don't want to talk about it. If he insists, ask him if you could ever change his mind,(I'm guessing he'll say no) and tell him he'll never change yours so there's no point in arguing about it.

I find this approach eminently sensible. It could save a lot of heartache on both sides.

Best of luck, MrKrispy.
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30-06-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: Visiting my family again.
The problem is that they can't help themselves. It's like picking at a scab. It's probably irritating the father all the time that his son-in-law is an atheist, and like picking at a scab you think you can just pick away at a small bit without any fresh blood being spilt.
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30-06-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: Visiting my family again.
(29-06-2014 12:04 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  The two questions I usually get is where did we come from and what happens when we die...

Funny. You can see that same tactic being used by superstitious Buddhists, superstitious muslims, etc.

Where did we come from -- the only HONEST answer is we don't know.

What happens when we die -- whatever happened before we were born.

Second question is loaded, presuppositional, and nonsensical, BTW. The Buddha countered such questions with, "What happens to the flame when a fire goes out?"


There is no evidence that there is any longer a "we", once we die. One might as well be asking what the sound of one hand clapping is.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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