Voices in my head
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26-12-2017, 07:46 AM
RE: Voices in my head
(25-12-2017 11:16 AM)sea_tiger Wrote:  
(22-12-2017 10:49 PM)DarkkWolfe Wrote:  What do you do about it? It's like I'm questioning my own senses and reason on no grounds at all!

Wow. That's me.
I am starving it to death so that he shut's up.Cool

That might actually work. When I want to shut them all up, I lose myself in coding. When I'm in the zone they all shut up and just watch entranced. If you got a zone staying in there for long stretches at a time can be quite therapeutic. I've seen gamers do it also, although very few of the gamers get paid for it. It Be the ball, Bob, be the ball. Smile

#sigh
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26-12-2017, 08:45 AM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2017 09:03 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Voices in my head
(23-12-2017 12:24 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-12-2017 11:54 PM)DarkkWolfe Wrote:  No argument from me... It's the other voice that's doing the arguing. I'm sure it IS just my internal dialog. I'm also sure everyone in my family would call it the holy spirit. It is the most bizarre feeling to have two conflicting opinions on the same subject. Maybe that's overstating. I can see very clearly that there is no evidence for the theist/creationist viewpoint. I've absorbed many of the arguments and can quote them. So rationally, I am an atheist. But then these weird nagging thoughts come and they don't even make sense, but there they are.

[Image: f67a12691747b4d61988706e79343a4a.jpg]

If you were supremely confident in your new outlook, then you'd have more cause for concern. Learning to doubt, to understand it, embrace it, come to terms with and stop fearing it? That is indicative that you are on the right track, that you are reasoning correctly. Intelligent people scale the strength of their conviction to the evidence at hand; doubt is a natural byproduct of both desiring knowledge and being honest with the limitations of that knowledge.

To have no doubts whatsoever, to claim nothing but certainty, is indicative of an uncritical (and often proudly ignorant) mindset.

BowingBowingBowing
YES BRILLIANT!
I love how Frank Schaeffer calls evangelicals "Certainty Junkies".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTARAarSZlQ
And wow. Are people listening yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBiHdB_GD6w

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27-12-2017, 06:53 PM
RE: Voices in my head
(22-12-2017 10:49 PM)DarkkWolfe Wrote:  Click-worthy title, right? Wink

Seriously though, I was indoctrinated in the christian faith from birth basically, and now that I've woken up (after a mere 30 years...sigh) I do feel like I have these other thoughts or voices in my mind at times.

Here's my family background: Biblical literalist, lightly pentecostal, fundamentalist. Non-abusive, loving home. Loving god (except the hell part, obviously). Supposed to have a personal relationship with Jesus (spoiler: he never showed up). Dad was a pastor. Grandparents and extended family all missionaries.

Anyway, I feel literally of two minds. I'm delving deep into science to try to wash all the young-earth creationist crap out of my head with reality, and in the background I keep getting thoughts like this: "What if you've been deceived by satan?" or "Lean not on your own understanding" or "for the wisdom of the wise is foolishness to god" or "But what if you're wrong and end up burning in HELL?"

Do you guys have these thoughts? Where you can still see the theist viewpoint in your own head and it feels so real and at the same time the atheist in your head is screaming, "are you STUPID?! That's just bullshit!"

What do you do about it? It's like I'm questioning my own senses and reason on no grounds at all!

Perhaps you should study the origins of the Christian church, it's history dating back to the 1st century. This will help you to understand the origins of your "voices in your head" so that these lingering questions can finally fade into the abyss of ancient history where they belong.

You see, once you understand the nature of the Christian religion, and all the ancient characters involved with its creation, the mystique of this faith quickly evaporates as the truth about it becomes revealed.

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28-12-2017, 12:12 AM
RE: Voices in my head
(23-12-2017 05:32 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(22-12-2017 10:49 PM)DarkkWolfe Wrote:  What do you do about it? It's like I'm questioning my own senses and reason on no grounds at all!

I didn't become an atheist until I was 50, and had similar problems for some years -- during which time I was semi-depressed. Old habits of thought are hard to break. Reading atheist literature cleared up a lot of my doubts for me, and of course discussing them with other atheists helped, but honesty with myself helped the most. With time passing, I felt much more confident and better about myself.

Just give yourself time.


I did not know that, Thoreauvian. Wow. Have you told the story here already?

I think the older you are, the greater the accomplishment because of inertia. I wouldn't worry about waiting until you're 30, Darkwolfe. The people I think would have it the harder would be the ones who have been coerced to actively recruit others. It's like a gang making a newbie kill someone, get their hands good and dirty.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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28-12-2017, 07:14 AM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2017 07:53 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Voices in my head
(28-12-2017 12:12 AM)whateverist Wrote:  I did not know that, Thoreauvian. Wow. Have you told the story here already?

I posted my story at #358 of the "Share your de-conversion story" discussion under "Atheism and Theism."

The simplified version is that I wasted a lot of my life trying to prove to myself that God existed. It's amazing how long some people will try to rationalize such ideas before they consider the alternatives.
Hobo

However, I didn't mention in that account my struggling with semi-depression and panic attacks for several years after I gave up my spiritual studies (though I think I mentioned that in at least one other discussion). That's just par for the course.
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28-12-2017, 05:23 PM
RE: Voices in my head
(28-12-2017 07:14 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(28-12-2017 12:12 AM)whateverist Wrote:  I did not know that, Thoreauvian. Wow. Have you told the story here already?

I posted my story at #358 of the "Share your de-conversion story" discussion under "Atheism and Theism."

The simplified version is that I wasted a lot of my life trying to prove to myself that God existed. It's amazing how long some people will try to rationalize such ideas before they consider the alternatives.
Hobo

However, I didn't mention in that account my struggling with semi-depression and panic attacks for several years after I gave up my spiritual studies (though I think I mentioned that in at least one other discussion). That's just par for the course.


I'll have a look. Interesting about the panic attacks and depression, but not surprising. Those spiritual studies no doubt played a part in your inner equilibrium. Probably would be more surprising if it was no big deal at all.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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28-12-2017, 09:47 PM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2017 09:52 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Voices in my head
(28-12-2017 05:23 PM)whateverist Wrote:  Interesting about the panic attacks and depression, but not surprising. Those spiritual studies no doubt played a part in your inner equilibrium. Probably would be more surprising if it was no big deal at all.

It's depressing when you spend so much time and effort to make yourself a better person, only to waste your time and make yourself worse after all.

Generally, however, it was a big relief after I dropped spiritual studies, at least once I had gained enough distance from them.

Someday perhaps I will return to the books I was reading to sort out the insights about human psychology I still consider worthwhile, but I'm in no hurry.
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28-12-2017, 10:12 PM
RE: Voices in my head
(28-12-2017 09:47 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(28-12-2017 05:23 PM)whateverist Wrote:  Interesting about the panic attacks and depression, but not surprising. Those spiritual studies no doubt played a part in your inner equilibrium. Probably would be more surprising if it was no big deal at all.

It's depressing when you spend so much time and effort to make yourself a better person, only to waste your time and make yourself worse after all.

Generally, however, it was a big relief after I dropped spiritual studies, at least once I had gained enough distance from them.

Someday perhaps I will return to the books I was reading to sort out the insights about human psychology I still consider worthwhile, but I'm in no hurry.


If it makes you feel any better you aren't the only one here who has shopped in the mysticism section of a book store. You name it, I tried it. It was Alan Watts who helped me give up that search, when I read his Wisdom of Insecurity. Their is no way or body of study which will give you an edge in the next moment. In fact, the best way to be fully present in the next moment is to be engaged in this and every moment in between. Now I prefer reading novels, getting little peeks at the world through someone else's eyes.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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29-12-2017, 12:32 AM
RE: Voices in my head
(25-12-2017 11:16 AM)sea_tiger Wrote:  
(22-12-2017 10:49 PM)DarkkWolfe Wrote:  Click-worthy title, right? Wink

Seriously though, I was indoctrinated in the christian faith from birth basically, and now that I've woken up (after a mere 30 years...sigh) I do feel like I have these other thoughts or voices in my mind at times.

Here's my family background: Biblical literalist, lightly pentecostal, fundamentalist. Non-abusive, loving home. Loving god (except the hell part, obviously). Supposed to have a personal relationship with Jesus (spoiler: he never showed up). Dad was a pastor. Grandparents and extended family all missionaries.

Anyway, I feel literally of two minds. I'm delving deep into science to try to wash all the young-earth creationist crap out of my head with reality, and in the background I keep getting thoughts like this: "What if you've been deceived by satan?" or "Lean not on your own understanding" or "for the wisdom of the wise is foolishness to god" or "But what if you're wrong and end up burning in HELL?"

Do you guys have these thoughts? Where you can still see the theist viewpoint in your own head and it feels so real and at the same time the atheist in your head is screaming, "are you STUPID?! That's just bullshit!"

What do you do about it? It's like I'm questioning my own senses and reason on no grounds at all!

Wow. That's me.
I am starving it to death so that he shut's up.Cool

Ha! If I can figure out what it eats I'll try it!

“I have always felt that doubt was the beginning of wisdom, and the fear of God was the end of wisdom.”
― Clarence Darrow, The Story of My Life
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29-12-2017, 12:34 AM
RE: Voices in my head
(27-12-2017 06:53 PM)Free Wrote:  
(22-12-2017 10:49 PM)DarkkWolfe Wrote:  Click-worthy title, right? Wink

Seriously though, I was indoctrinated in the christian faith from birth basically, and now that I've woken up (after a mere 30 years...sigh) I do feel like I have these other thoughts or voices in my mind at times.

Here's my family background: Biblical literalist, lightly pentecostal, fundamentalist. Non-abusive, loving home. Loving god (except the hell part, obviously). Supposed to have a personal relationship with Jesus (spoiler: he never showed up). Dad was a pastor. Grandparents and extended family all missionaries.

Anyway, I feel literally of two minds. I'm delving deep into science to try to wash all the young-earth creationist crap out of my head with reality, and in the background I keep getting thoughts like this: "What if you've been deceived by satan?" or "Lean not on your own understanding" or "for the wisdom of the wise is foolishness to god" or "But what if you're wrong and end up burning in HELL?"

Do you guys have these thoughts? Where you can still see the theist viewpoint in your own head and it feels so real and at the same time the atheist in your head is screaming, "are you STUPID?! That's just bullshit!"

What do you do about it? It's like I'm questioning my own senses and reason on no grounds at all!

Perhaps you should study the origins of the Christian church, it's history dating back to the 1st century. This will help you to understand the origins of your "voices in your head" so that these lingering questions can finally fade into the abyss of ancient history where they belong.

You see, once you understand the nature of the Christian religion, and all the ancient characters involved with its creation, the mystique of this faith quickly evaporates as the truth about it becomes revealed.

Thanks! Any thoughts on a good overview book on the subject? I was just about to start reading Richard Carrier and/or Bart Ehrman, hadn't decided which to begin with.

“I have always felt that doubt was the beginning of wisdom, and the fear of God was the end of wisdom.”
― Clarence Darrow, The Story of My Life
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