Vote of No Confidence

[Vera]

(31-12-2012 08:25 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  but what you atheists are suppose to fully support.

You're forgetting that not having god telling us we're chosen ( ) and better than the non-chosen schmucks, we need other ways to feel morally superior. One'd think you've been here long enough to know it by now

[Dom]

Since there are two threads with different participants, and this post applies in both, I am going to add it here also. The point being that he is completely bannable under the current rules. I was just hoping for a more creative solution, so I never asked for a ban.

Here goes:

Quote: Reasons for banning

#1:

He threatened Anjele in a PRIVATE message. Not the same as spouting crap in public during a confrontation.

#2:

He tried to sell his services without sufficient seniority. $25 per signature.

#3:

The comment he made in Stark's goodbye thread: "I always win". Intent to cause a forum melt down and topple admin.

#4: The vast majority of the forum members felt aggravated enough to complain and to rep him negatively, and in my book, that is a vote. All you need to do is read the rep reasons and you know he didn't get repped for being an airhead or holding controversial opinions.

Free speech is extremely important, yes!!!!!

Whose free speech? There comes a time when free speech causes a conflict and you have to decide something or have a forum meltdown like we did. It always happens like that. One idiot, if left on the lose, can destroy any forum online. There are people making a sport of it.

For the sake of freedom of speech you sit back and let the place that does provide freedom of speech be destroyed.

Where is the logic of that?

Free speech needs to be protected or there will be no place for it at all.

But, that aside, there are 3 "rule appropriate" reasons for banning, so no one needs to get their panties all in a bunch because exceptions to the rules have been found to also apply.

I didn't call for banning, I called for more intelligent solutions. But I am certainly happy Buddy pulled the trigger.

[Logisch]

I was going to type a really long reply to this, but I went and looked at the rules and I see this was added/edited:

Quote:3) No ThreatsWe show ZERO TOLERANCE towards threats and threatening behavior aimed at ANY of our members. This behavior will result in your account being banned and depending on the nature of the threats your details being passed to law enforcement. Bullying and harassment fall under this category and will be dealt with on a case by case basis.

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I totally understand free speech and protecting it on the forum. We have discussed some majorly controversial stuff here, but it's still within limitations of free speech. HOWEVER, to me at least, ANY kind of threats to anyone (doesn't have to be physical, but bullying and threats of ANY sort) are over the line, ridiculous, entirely unnecessary and should be promptly dealt with.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] [/font]

[kingschosen]

(31-12-2012 08:51 AM)Logisch Wrote:  I was going to type a really long reply to this, but I went and looked at the rules and I see this was added/edited:

Quote:3) No ThreatsWe show ZERO TOLERANCE towards threats and threatening behavior aimed at ANY of our members. This behavior will result in your account being banned and depending on the nature of the threats your details being passed to law enforcement. Bullying and harassment fall under this category and will be dealt with on a case by case basis.

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I totally understand free speech and protecting it on the forum. We have discussed some majorly controversial stuff here, but it's still within limitations of free speech. HOWEVER, to me at least, ANY kind of threats to anyone (doesn't have to be physical, but bullying and threats of ANY sort) are over the line, ridiculous, entirely unnecessary and should be promptly dealt with.[/font]

And be dealt with on a case by case basis

This is key. The actual threat was assessed and action was being taken. Follow up action was being taken for his continued violations.

If we didn't consider it case by case... at least a dozen people should be banned for periodically "bullying" me. Other very popular members have made it their MO is verbally bully and be harsh towards people they don't agree with.

HOWEVER, the actual threat from them is nil; therefore, no action is required.

The actual threat from FZU was nil, but we did take action for the good of the forum.

[Logisch]

(31-12-2012 08:58 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  

(31-12-2012 08:51 AM)Logisch Wrote:  I was going to type a really long reply to this, but I went and looked at the rules and I see this was added/edited:



[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I totally understand free speech and protecting it on the forum. We have discussed some majorly controversial stuff here, but it's still within limitations of free speech. HOWEVER, to me at least, ANY kind of threats to anyone (doesn't have to be physical, but bullying and threats of ANY sort) are over the line, ridiculous, entirely unnecessary and should be promptly dealt with.[/font]

And be dealt with on a case by case basis

This is key. The actual threat was assessed and action was being taken. Follow up action was being taken for his continued violations.

If we didn't consider it case by case... at least a dozen people should be banned for periodically "bullying" me. Other very popular members have made it their MO is verbally bully and be harsh towards people they don't agree with.

HOWEVER, the actual threat from them is nil; therefore, no action is required.

The actual threat from FZU was nil, but we did take action for the good of the forum.

Even if nil, it is better to take someone making such threats against people seriously. Because we all know there are enough bat shit crazy people out there that sometimes they do crazy things.

I'm sorry if you feel like people bully you. I do my best not to bully people, I don't feel I am that type or want to be that type of person. Things get tense here on the forums especially over things people are passionate about. But I'm glad the moderation team was able to recognize it and take care of it.

[TheBeardedDude]

Is any threat on an internet forum where anyone can pretend to be anyone capable of doing anything ever a serious threat? Perhaps to some people, damage to their image is a serious threat. Anjele seemed pretty upset by it.

[kingschosen]

(31-12-2012 09:06 AM)Logisch Wrote:  

(31-12-2012 08:58 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
And be dealt with on a case by case basis

This is key. The actual threat was assessed and action was being taken. Follow up action was being taken for his continued violations.

If we didn't consider it case by case... at least a dozen people should be banned for periodically "bullying" me. Other very popular members have made it their MO is verbally bully and be harsh towards people they don't agree with.

HOWEVER, the actual threat from them is nil; therefore, no action is required.

The actual threat from FZU was nil, but we did take action for the good of the forum.

Even if nil, it is better to take someone making such threats against people seriously. Because we all know there are enough bat shit crazy people out there that sometimes they do crazy things.

I'm sorry if you feel like people bully you. I do my best not to bully people, I don't feel I am that type or want to be that type of person. Things get tense here on the forums especially over things people are passionate about. But I'm glad the moderation team was able to recognize it and take care of it.

But see, actions were being taken.

I have no problem with him being banned. The dude was terrible for the forum. He probably would have eventually be banned.

But, I do have a problem with the way he was banned. I have a problem with the disregard for the admin and FT's decision and how it was being handled.

I don't think people bully me... but, what some people say to me can definitely be considered harassment/bullying.

Quote:Is
any threat on an internet forum where anyone can pretend to be anyone
capable of doing anything ever a serious threat? Perhaps to some people,
damage to their image is a serious threat. Anjele seemed pretty upset
by it.

I said this same thing, and in fact, it was because of the "slander" issue that any action was taken.

But... the level of threat wasn't serious. Angele just got slandered by him... but his slander was even empty as I don't know of one person that actually believed him.

[Magoo]

I think the mods are going overboard with all this "freedom of speech" crap. I love freedom of speech, and I think everyone here should have the right to say what the want, but there needs to be a line, and the mods haven't drawn it.

[Logisch]

(31-12-2012 09:07 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Is any threat on an internet forum where anyone can pretend to be anyone capable of doing anything ever a serious threat? Perhaps to some people, damage to their image is a serious threat. Anjele seemed pretty upset by it.

Perhaps. Some people carry through with crazy threats, others do not. Many times threats are just empty threats. But is it better to be safe than sorry, or let it slide and go "oops, well we were wrong that time" if something happens.

Anyone who is starting threats against members has any desire in interacting as a mature human being on here in the first place and have nothing to contribute. If Anjele felt threatened or disturbed by it then it was worth the attention of mods. I think many of us would probably shrug it off, but members should feel safe here. After all, we come here (at least, many of us do) as sort of a safe place to confide in with other like minded individuals.

[kingschosen]

(31-12-2012 09:15 AM)Magoo Wrote:  I think the mods are going overboard with all this "freedom of speech" crap. I love freedom of speech, and I think everyone here should have the right to say what the want, but there needs to be a line, and the mods haven't drawn it.

That's because it was never drawn because that was against Stark's vision for the forum.

Yes, I understand things have to be reconsidered because of the growth and changing of the forum; however, you can't suddenly drawn a line and then ban someone for crossing that line.

Without going into much detail (because it's a private FT issue), the future of the forum's rules and vision was being discussed.