WHAT SACRIFICE?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-01-2014, 11:28 PM
RE: WHAT SACRIFICE?
(16-01-2014 07:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 07:57 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  So how is atonement repentance? (hint....it ain't)

Atonement is not repentance. But without the Atonement repentance will not help to be resurrected.

I love how she talks about resurrection like it's an actual thing... Weeping

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like EvolutionKills's post
17-01-2014, 02:34 AM (This post was last modified: 17-01-2014 02:38 AM by Baruch.)
RE: WHAT SACRIFICE?
(16-01-2014 11:28 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 07:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  Atonement is not repentance. But without the Atonement repentance will not help to be resurrected.

I love how she talks about resurrection like it's an actual thing... Weeping

Resurrection would be the ultimate experience of Hell knowing most of someone's family who did not believe in Jesus as a god end up in the other Hell.

Just imagine bringing up children who exemplify the incredible acts of courage rescuing people from persecution during their life (see my previous posts on this thread for examples) - the ONLY thing the children didn't do was believe in Jesus then they go to Hell.
As a resurrected atoned "believing" parent of such a child I would definitely consider heaven the ultimate Hell.

Quite understandable that the Pol POts & Hitlers might be in a Hell (maybe not eternal as this is unjust even for them - but can still justify a punishment to the extent that they experience the damage they did is some manner which is transforming)
However the very experience of injustice knowing your child who lived a moral life, doing good to others & incredible acts of self sacrifice was in Hell just because they didnt believe in jesus/scriptures would be the ultimate experience of Hell.

Anyway I don't have to be concerned about this problem....because Christianity is just a fictional story like a badly directed movie. God the director playing himself & Jesus one of the actors playing God.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhOs7rUrS5bRKvWS7clR7...gNs5ZwpVef]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Baruch's post
17-01-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: WHAT SACRIFICE?
(17-01-2014 02:34 AM)Baruch Wrote:  Resurrection would be the ultimate experience of Hell knowing most of someone's family who did not believe in Jesus as a god end up in the other Hell.
It would be false doctrine. God will judge people according to their works. And there is only one sin that can not be forgiven - sin against the Holy Ghost. All other sins(evil deeds) can be forgiven.


(17-01-2014 02:34 AM)Baruch Wrote:  Just imagine bringing up children who exemplify the incredible acts of courage rescuing people from persecution during their life (see my previous posts on this thread for examples) - the ONLY thing the children didn't do was believe in Jesus then they go to Hell.
As a resurrected atoned "believing" parent of such a child I would definitely consider heaven the ultimate Hell.
where did you get this info that children will go to hell because they didn't believe in Jesus?
Jesus said that healthy ones do not need a doctor but sick need a doctor. Children are healthy they don't need a doctor because they have no sins.
ALL children are alive in Christ.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2014, 02:54 PM
RE: WHAT SACRIFICE?
(16-01-2014 11:28 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 07:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  Atonement is not repentance. But without the Atonement repentance will not help to be resurrected.

I love how she talks about resurrection like it's an actual thing... Weeping



You're killing me.
Weeping

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like WitchSabrina's post
17-01-2014, 05:25 PM
RE: WHAT SACRIFICE?
(16-01-2014 04:57 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Alla:
Quote:1) that ALL people will be resurrected. It is nobody's fault that we die but Adam's only.

Quite rightly another blogger blamed the centromeres decaying in our chromosomes for death ! As I previously mentioned the plasmodium parasites are one of Gods intelligent designs and quite an efficient killer at a child dying from malaria fever every 45 seconds - that's GOD not ADAM !!!

Quote:We are not responsible for Adam's sin.
Obviously

Quote:So Jesus saved all of us from physical death. It means we all will resurrect one day
Fallacy spotted Laughat
Now that is definitely a non-sequitur fallacy. !!!


Quote:2)Because Jesus saved us from the death we can repent.
Another non-sequitur.
We can repent any time we change & God knows its genuine. God can forgive anyone if they alter their behaviour & habits. NO ONE HAS TO DIE, NO SON HAS TO BE KILLED. Its a ridiculous theology. Even the Muslims were smart enough to spot this was illogical & ridiculous that because someone dies we can repent !
(or worse it is NECESSARY for someone to die for us to be able to repent)


Quote: If we couldn't be resurrected repentance would be meaningless. Repentance brings forgiveness.
...another non sequitur fallacy (kind of getting used to it now)

Quote:If Jesus didn't save us from death we would go to hell forever no matter how we live our lives and who we are.
Physical death = hell.
Physical death is annihilation "game over" NOT HELL.
There is a big difference !
Life can be extremely worthwhile even if it does not last forever.

Quote:When we repent we have forgiveness. When we don't repent we are NOT forgiven and we will be RESPONSIBLE for EVERY UNREPENTED sin we do.
The above makes sense but does not require ANYONE to die for us.


Quote:Atonement works only for those who follow Jesus and repent.
TRUE repentance has 5 steps:
1)accept that I did wrong/sin
2)confess to God to those against whom wrong is done
3)ask for forgiveness God and those against whom wrong is done
4)restitution - if I stole return back, if I falsely testified I have to tell the truth
5)promise to God, myself and those against whom wrong is done that I will never ever do it again.
If I have to go to jail for wrong doing it will be part of RESTITUTION (very important step)

Amazing - I actually agree with the above as would a jew or muslim (or many religious AND philosophical systemss) HOWEVER - NOTHING IN THE ABOVE STEPS REQUIRED JESUS DYING FOR YOU !!! All the above steps can be carried out by a Jew, muslim or any other theist - Jesus is not essential but a distraction.

I admire your patience explaining all this. Well written!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2014, 06:28 PM
RE: WHAT SACRIFICE?
(16-01-2014 05:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 04:17 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Paganism is worshiping more than one God.
Paganism is worshiping more than one god not God.

Sure. God Father Elohim, God Son Yahweh and God Holy Ghost can be called one God in purpose. I believe in ONE Godhead or ONE Union of THREE Gods.


(16-01-2014 04:17 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Yahweh is the one God and the holy ghost & jesus are the pagan idols.)
Yahweh = Jesus Christ or God Son. Many Christians think/believe that Yahweh is Heavenly Father.
When God Yahweh Who was the only God FOR Israel was born on earth and lived in Judea He was teaching about His God and His Father.

"When God Yahweh Who was the only God FOR Israel was born on earth and lived in Judea He was teaching about His God and His Father."

Huh?
Yahweh, who created the earth, was "born" on earth? So he created the earth before he was "born?"

If he was "the only God FOR Israel" please explain El, Baal and Asherah

Where, in Judea, did Yahweh live? When did he leave Judea?

Yahweh had "His God?" Who was that?

Yahweh had "His Father?" Please explain?
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2014, 07:54 PM
RE: WHAT SACRIFICE?
(17-01-2014 06:28 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Huh?
Yahweh, who created the earth, was "born" on earth? So he created the earth before he was "born?"

He created the Earth before He was born on Earth. God Yahweh didn't have physical body when He was creating the Earth. He had only spirit body.
Here on Earth He obtained physical body.

(17-01-2014 06:28 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  If he was "the only God FOR Israel" please explain El, Baal and Asherah
Elohim appointed Yahweh to be God of Israel.

(17-01-2014 06:28 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Where, in Judea, did Yahweh live? When did he leave Judea?
If you read NT you know the answer.
Yahweh = Jesus Christ.

(17-01-2014 06:28 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Yahweh had "His God?" Who was that?
Yahweh had "His Father?" Please explain?
Elohim is Yahweh's/Christ's God and Father

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-01-2014, 10:40 PM
RE: WHAT SACRIFICE?
(17-01-2014 07:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(17-01-2014 06:28 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Huh?
Yahweh, who created the earth, was "born" on earth? So he created the earth before he was "born?"

He created the Earth before He was born on Earth. God Yahweh didn't have physical body when He was creating the Earth. He had only spirit body.
Here on Earth He obtained physical body.

(17-01-2014 06:28 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  If he was "the only God FOR Israel" please explain El, Baal and Asherah
Elohim appointed Yahweh to be God of Israel.

(17-01-2014 06:28 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Where, in Judea, did Yahweh live? When did he leave Judea?
If you read NT you know the answer.
Yahweh = Jesus Christ.

(17-01-2014 06:28 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Yahweh had "His God?" Who was that?
Yahweh had "His Father?" Please explain?
Elohim is Yahweh's/Christ's God and Father

So please answer the question. Who were Asherah and Baal?

Where does Elohim live now?

What's his role?

Um....if you read the OT, Yahweh lived in the temple.

When did Yahweh leave Judea?
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Mark Fulton's post
18-01-2014, 02:00 AM
RE: WHAT SACRIFICE?
(17-01-2014 10:40 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(17-01-2014 07:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  He created the Earth before He was born on Earth. God Yahweh didn't have physical body when He was creating the Earth. He had only spirit body.
Here on Earth He obtained physical body.

Elohim appointed Yahweh to be God of Israel.

If you read NT you know the answer.
Yahweh = Jesus Christ.

Elohim is Yahweh's/Christ's God and Father

So please answer the question. Who were Asherah and Baal?

Where does Elohim live now?

What's his role?

Um....if you read the OT, Yahweh lived in the temple.

When did Yahweh leave Judea?

Well, do you want the answer supported by modern biblical scholarship and archeology? (Which I imagine you already know.)

Or do you want some boilerplate Mormon apologetics delivered through Alla's filter?

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
18-01-2014, 10:00 AM
RE: WHAT SACRIFICE?
(17-01-2014 10:40 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  So please answer the question. Who were Asherah and Baal?
I don't know

(17-01-2014 10:40 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Where does Elohim live now?
He didn't reveal.

(17-01-2014 10:40 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  What's his role?
He is the Father of the spirits of all flesh.

(17-01-2014 10:40 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Um....if you read the OT, Yahweh lived in the temple.
And your point?

(17-01-2014 10:40 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  When did Yahweh leave Judea?
When He was killed, then after He was resurrected.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: