WHY was Jesus crucified?
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30-07-2014, 01:15 PM
RE: WHY was Jesus crucified?
Because the plot. Not kidding. The Bible was made up by people who had poor storytelling abilities. That was the only way they could conceive of to fill the reader with guilt. Surprisingly, it still works on modern theists.

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30-07-2014, 01:30 PM
RE: WHY was Jesus crucified?
(30-07-2014 01:15 PM)One Above All Wrote:  Because the plot. Not kidding. The Bible was made up by people who had poor storytelling abilities. That was the only way they could conceive of to fill the reader with guilt. Surprisingly, it still works on modern theists.

On the contrary. The bulk of the new testament is very good storytelling...

... if you happen to be a 1st century hellenized Jew.

Outside that context, it presents rather more problems.

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30-07-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: WHY was Jesus crucified?
(30-07-2014 01:30 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(30-07-2014 01:15 PM)One Above All Wrote:  Because the plot. Not kidding. The Bible was made up by people who had poor storytelling abilities. That was the only way they could conceive of to fill the reader with guilt. Surprisingly, it still works on modern theists.

On the contrary. The bulk of the new testament is very good storytelling...

... if you happen to be a 1st century hellenized Jew.

Outside that context, it presents rather more problems.

Well not only that but these were not meant to be an anthology they were one off stories. You would not study all the gospels you would have one. The contradictions were much less obvious when you did not have the other versions for comparison.

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30-07-2014, 04:26 PM
RE: WHY was Jesus crucified?
(30-07-2014 10:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Conclusion: God is not omnipotent.

Conclusion: God's bloodlust exceeds his compassion, and he goes out of his way to cause suffering when "solving" problems.

I agree with both of these but the last one is what I wanted to really touch on.

So not only with this story but with multiple others death of innocent people(the pure at heart if you will) seem to be the ONLY answer for bad behavior. This is particularly interesting for an awesome God who is capable of anything. To me, it seems like a very humanistic way to deal with a problem(oh those people over there aren't doing what we want them to? Kill them and take their daughters OR kill their "insert family member" to get the message across that we mean business) Matt Dillahunty uses the Mafia boss analogy to describe a similar occurrence sometimes.

The explanation for this just really goes more into the camp of the religion being man made and nothing more in my opinion. Do you really think that if God is real that he's going to use human tactics to deal with problems that will turn the tides spiritually to get more followers?
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30-07-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: WHY was Jesus crucified?
WHY was Jesus crucified?

Why ?
Would YOU watch a movie where Pilate tells him to go to his room and stay there until he decides he can behave ?

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30-07-2014, 05:15 PM
RE: WHY was Jesus crucified?
because a being whom is all powerful, all knowing, all loving, and infinitely clever and infinitely creative could think of no better way to sacrifice himself, to himself for himself to remove something that does not exist that HE put there to begin with that was HIS fault in the first place.


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30-07-2014, 05:50 PM
RE: WHY was Jesus crucified?
Mr. J.H. Christ got off lightly. It would take man's imagination 600 more years to invent something more ghastly than an all powerful, all seeing, all knowing god's pathetic attempt at "ultimate punishment".
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30-07-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: WHY was Jesus crucified?
The other question to ask is what did the crucifixion actually accomplish? According to the popular factions of christianity most people are still hellbound. I thought the whole point was to save us. And then course there's the question about all the people before jeebus. Did all they go to hell? If not how did they get to heaven?
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31-07-2014, 07:35 AM
RE: WHY was Jesus crucified?
(30-07-2014 10:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, why was it necessary for God to have Jesus sacrificed for our sins? Now, I know that this whole notion of Jesus' death being "a sacrifice" is stupid, and I've already covered that, but for sake of this thread, lets assume it counts. Why did it have to happen? By what mechanism does the death of one innocent person atone for the sins of others? I was thinking about this and realized that this was something that God either chose to do, or somehow had to do, and either way, it has weird consequences most Christians don't like to consider.

God had to go through with it:
So, for whatever reason, this bizarre self-sacrifice was vital to God forgiving our sins, and he couldn't simply just... forgive us. It's something to which God was beholden, and something he has no control over. It makes me wonder: from where did this rule come?

Conclusion: God is not omnipotent.


God chose to go through with it:
God could have forgiven us, but he instead opted to have one third of himself be sacrificed to another third of himself for reasons. Now, this seems stupid (and it is), but I guess I can't complain too much. All parties involved were consenting, even if it does look like some really freaky S&M. Still, the whole charade was unnecessary and overly theatric.

Conclusion: God's bloodlust exceeds his compassion, and he goes out of his way to cause suffering when "solving" problems.


Now, I think the second point is closest to the standard Christian stance, although they don't like to think about it much. It is actually very similar to flood apologetics and original sin apologetics, so, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Any part of this that looks creepy at first glance (all of it) will be washed over with a veneer of [mysterious ways] to hide the blemishes.
Assuming that Jesus existed and further assuming the gospel accounts are at least a little bit accurate I'd say Jesus was crucified for creating a public disturbance by a regime that didn't take any crap from anybody.

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31-07-2014, 12:26 PM
RE: WHY was Jesus crucified?
Jesus was crucified for blasphemy, but then gawd lied and said it was all part of the plan. It seems breaking his own commandment was a lesser evil to gawd than being weaker than humans.

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