WTF Don't even know where to start
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16-04-2014, 08:31 AM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2014 08:52 AM by Full Circle.)
WTF Don't even know where to start
This is the kind of pithy, sentimental, woe is us, we're all going to hell, blather, non-stop religious crap my father Weeping and his buddies forward forward forward forward forward to every fucking person on their e-mail contact list.

IT FUCKING DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!!!!!

I used to respond to "all" and challange line by line but then I had 25 people e-mailing me and telling me I was going to hell and all that bullshit so now I just delete.

This is the kind of thinking that pervades within the old farts my dear father hangs around with. I wonder if he's hoping one of these will "help me see the light". Dodgy

I'm trying to craft a response to my beloved father that I can send back without a lot of Censored in it. Is it even worth it?

Below is the latest missive. ---------


"Whether you choose to send or not, at least read this and think about GOD and our values today.


SADDENED, SENDING TO EVERYONE. PLEASE PASS IT ON.


SHALL WE HIRE A MONUMENT ENGRAVER TO GO TO ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY AND ADD THE MISSING WORDS?

THIS IS A MESSAGE FROM AN APPALLED OBSERVER:

Today I went to visit the new World War II Memorial in Washington , DC . I got an unexpected history lesson. Because I'm a baby boomer, I was one of the youngest in the crowd. Most were the age of my parents, Veterans of 'the greatest war,' with their families. It was a beautiful day, and people were smiling and happy to be there. Hundreds of us milled around the memorial, reading the inspiring words of Eisenhower and Truman that are engraved there.

On the Pacific side of the memorial, a group of us gathered to read the words President Roosevelt used to announce the attack on Pearl Harbor :

'Yesterday, December 7, 1941--a date which will live in infamy--the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked.'

One elderly woman read the words aloud:

'With confidence in our armed forces, with the abounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph.'

But as she read, she was suddenly turned angry. 'Wait a minute,' she said, 'they left out the end of the quote. They left out the most important part. Roosevelt ended the message with 'so help us God.'

Her husband said, 'You are probably right. We're not supposed to say things like that now.'

'I know I'm right,' she insisted. 'I remember the speech.' The two looked dismayed, shook their heads sadly and walked away.

Listening to their conversation, I thought to myself, 'Well, it has been over 50 years; she's probably forgotten.'

But she had not forgotten. She was right..

I went home and pulled out the book my book club is reading --- 'Flags of Our Fathers' by James Bradley. It's all about the battle at Iwo Jima ..


I haven't gotten too far in the book. It's tough to read because it's a graphic description of the WWII battles in the Pacific.

But right there it was on page 58. Roosevelt 's speech to the nation ends in 'so help us God.'

The people who edited out that part of the speech when they engraved it on the memorial could have fooled me. I was born after the war! But they couldn't fool the people who were there. Roosevelt 's words are engraved on their hearts.

Now I ask: 'WHO GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE WORDS OF HISTORY?????????'

Send this around to your friends. People need to know before everyone forgets.

People today are trying to change the history of America by leaving God out of it, but the truth is, God has been a part of this nation, since the beginning. He still wants to be...and He always will be!

If you agree, pass this on and God Bless YOU!

If not, May God Forgive You!"

**Actual text http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches...harbor.htm
"No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory."
Further down it does say
"With confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph -- so help us God."

Photo of inscriptions
**can't upload for some reason
The plaque reads:
PEARL HARBOR
December 7, 1941, a date
which will live in infamy...
No matter how long it
may take us to overcome
the premediated invasion,
the American people in
their righteous might,
will win through
to absolute victory.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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16-04-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: WTF Don't even know where to start
Ugh. How annoying.

"So help us god" isn't even the substance of the message, it's just a sentiment along the lines of "I swear" or "by all means necessary."

Who cares if an emphasizer is left out, it doesn't change the meaning.



On a side note, I've read this story before... Maybe it floated around Facebook, too.

Atheism is the only way to truly be free from sin.
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16-04-2014, 08:55 AM
RE: WTF Don't even know where to start
Well gosh durn it, this must be this new fangled oppression I been hearin' about... Rolleyes

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-04-2014, 09:18 AM
RE: WTF Don't even know where to start
How about something like this?


"Whether you choose to send or not, at least read this and think about GOD DELIBERATELY LYING and our values today.


SADDENED, SENDING TO EVERYONE. PLEASE PASS IT ON.


SHALL WE HIRE A MONUMENT ENGRAVER TO GO TO ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY AND ADD THE MISSING WORDS? or SHALL WE ACTUALLY TAKE THE TIME TO INFORM OURSELVES OF THE FACTS? THE INSCRIPTION QUOTING FDR IS FOUND ON THE WWII MEMORIAL NOT ARLINGTON.

THIS IS A MESSAGE FROM AN APPALLED OBSERVER:
THIS MESSAGE FROM AN APPALLED RECIPIENT OF THIS DISINGENOUS MESSAGE:


Today I went to visit the new World War II Memorial in Washington , DC . I got an unexpected history lesson. Because I'm a baby boomer, I was one of the youngest in the crowd. Most were the age of my parents, Veterans of 'the greatest war,' with their families. It was a beautiful day, and people were smiling and happy to be there. Hundreds of us milled around the memorial, reading the inspiring words of Eisenhower and Truman that are engraved there.

On the Pacific side of the memorial, a group of us gathered to read the words President Roosevelt used to announce the attack on Pearl Harbor :

'Yesterday, December 7, 1941--a date which will live in infamy--the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked.'

One elderly woman read the words aloud:

'With confidence in our armed forces, with the abounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph.'
HOW IN THE HELL DID SHE READ THAT WHEN THOSE WORDS ARE NOT ON THE PLAQUE?!?! OUTRIGHT LIE

THE REST OF THIS CANNOT HAVE TAKEN PLACE BECAUSE, AGAIN, THIS IS NOT THE QUOTE ON THE PLAQUE!
But as she read, she was suddenly turned angry. 'Wait a minute,' she said, 'they left out the end of the quote. They left out the most important part. Roosevelt ended the message with 'so help us God.'

Her husband said, 'You are probably right. We're not supposed to say things like that now.'

'I know I'm right,' she insisted. 'I remember the speech.' The two looked dismayed, shook their heads sadly and walked away.

Listening to their conversation, I thought to myself, 'Well, it has been over 50 years; she's probably forgotten.'

But she had not forgotten. She was right..

I went home and pulled out the book my book club is reading --- 'Flags of Our Fathers' by James Bradley. It's all about the battle at Iwo Jima ..


I haven't gotten too far in the book. It's tough to read because it's a graphic description of the WWII battles in the Pacific.

But right there it was on page 58. Roosevelt 's speech to the nation ends in 'so help us God.'

The people who edited out that part of the speech when they engraved it on the memorial could have fooled me. I was born after the war! But they couldn't fool the people who were there. Roosevelt 's words are engraved on their hearts.

Now I ask: 'WHO GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE WORDS OF HISTORY?????????'

THE BIG QUESTION IS WHO GIVES THE WRITER OF THIS FALSE, MISLEADING AND OBVIOUSLY DISTASTEFUL E-MAIL THE RIGHT TO FOMENT DISCORD AMONG AMERICANS?

Send this around to your friends. People need to know before everyone forgets.

People today are trying to change the history of America by leaving God out of it, but the truth is, God has been a part of this nation, since the beginning. He still wants to be...and He always will be!

If you agree, pass this on and God Bless YOU!

If not, May God Forgive You!"

IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE SOWING SEEDS OF HATRED AMONG YOUR FELLOW CITIZENS, PASS THE ORIGINAL ON.

IF YOU WANT TO STOP THIS INTENTIONALLY DECEPTIVE LETTER THAT NEVER HAPPENED, PLEASE PASS THIS ON.

IF NOT, MAY YOUR CONSCIENCE HOUND YOU TO YOUR GRAVE!

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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16-04-2014, 09:43 AM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2014 09:48 AM by Simon Moon.)
RE: WTF Don't even know where to start
Snopes to the rescue.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/memorial.asp

Includes the text of the original speech, including this line; "No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people, in their righteous might, will win through to absolute victory."

There is no "so help us god' in the original text of the speech, nor is that line even on the memorial.

Please tell your father that he is repeating a known lie. He is making Jesus cry.
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16-04-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: WTF Don't even know where to start
As someone who's never been east of the Mississippi* in his adult life, I needed to do a bit of fact-checking. I found a nice little site from a son of a soldier visiting the WW2 memorial with his dad, basically a bunch of photos interspersed with descriptions. It doesn't seem remotely interested in any sort of religious hullabaloo about God in the quote, and while attention is paid to the plaque it merits about two photographs out of sixty, so this doesn't seem to be any sort of plant and I have trouble swallowing a motive to photoshop. Every detail confirmed in those two photographs.

The words on the plaque:
[Image: image035.jpg]

The plaque is not in Arlington:
[Image: image036.jpg]

So, confirmed. Full Circle's got it 100% right, and the email doesn't. Not that there was much doubt.

Also, most important part? The most important part is "The American People... will win." That's the subject and predicate of the sentence. If the plaque had left everything out save those five words, the essence of the quote would have been preserved. If the plaque had left out everything save the words "So help us God", it would have sounded like he was a witness being sworn in to give testimony. We'd be completely clueless about what he was actually talking about. The phrase literally adds nothing to the statement... you can remove it and not subtract one iota of resoluteness, intent, or poetry. If anything, it dilutes the impact of the quote by watering down a firm statement with four words of boilerplate.

...... okay, I don't actually know how to use boilerplate to water something down. I don't have my bartender's certification in metaphor mixology.



* Actually, I think I spent all of two hours in a St. Paul airport as part of visiting friends in Minneapolis, so I'm a filthy liar.
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16-04-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: WTF Don't even know where to start
I think the take away from this is that atheists apparently aren't stirring up enough controversy so these "lying for Jesus" morons have to make some up. We need to get out there more and give them something real to cry about. Smartass

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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16-04-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: WTF Don't even know where to start
I ignored this type of email. Eventually they stopped.

I'm not out to change anyone's mind. Do wish they wouldn't try to change mine, as far as religion goes anyway.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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16-04-2014, 10:07 AM
RE: WTF Don't even know where to start
(16-04-2014 09:43 AM)Simon Moon Wrote:  Snopes to the rescue.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/memorial.asp

Includes the text of the original speech, including this line; "No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people, in their righteous might, will win through to absolute victory."

There is no "so help us god' in the original text of the speech, nor is that line even on the memorial.

Please tell your father that he is repeating a known lie. He is making Jesus cry.

.... erm, snopes HAS "so help us god" in the original text of the speech... just four sentences later. They even highlighted it for us.

Sorry. I seem to be in fact-check mode today. I blame the stuff that I've been procrastinating on.
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16-04-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: WTF Don't even know where to start
For every one email like this, there are hundreds of articles on history, logic, reason and truth. No skin off my back! Wink
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