WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
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28-02-2016, 08:08 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 03:56 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 03:16 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  No, I said the use of the extremists to say what a group is or isn't is not beneficial. Then I used the extremist feminist, who think all sex is rape even when consensual, or, the extremists MRA types that support that rape should be legal, as an example of both extremes and neither should be taken seriously or validated in any way.

If you re-read the entire sentence you can see I put the men working for equal parenting rights in the "valid" context with women working for equal rights. There are extremists on both sides and they should not be allowed to hijack the meaning of a valid position.

This is a false equivalence then. I'd wager anything you have RoK/Roosh v's gang in mind when you mentioned the 'we should have the right to rape crowd.' RoK not only don't identify as MRA's but absolutely reject them. And you know this, because I drilled this into your brains a while back in another thread - this is why you chose to mention these so-called pro-rape guys only as a group of MRA 'types.' No MRA has ever espoused want for the right to rape.

Just a feminist pushing the narrative at the cost of facts again.

In your example of an extremist feminist, though; I know exactly who you're talking about and they very much do identify as a feminist. They love their feminist theory and feminist literature like any great feminist should.

No, it is not a false equivalency.

There are people who use the extremist men's rights RoK posts as a way to criticize or invalidate the national MRA equal parent rights movement. Just like there are people who use extremist feminist posts to criticize or invalidate the national feminist movement. That is what I posted. In fact I posted it twice, once in reply and again in reply to HobbitGirl's question which you even copied here. How can you read it, copy it and reply to it and still not get it unless you're being purposefully obtuse as well as taking my comment out of context to suit your rant?

I don't see how more clear I could be. I did not say the MRA equal parental rights movement supported rape, not ever. That you say I said that, is the lie but it is yours not mine.

But the RoK men are a "Men's Rights" group in as much as they are men and they are claiming a right for men and have a movement to forward their agenda. It is not the same agenda as the national MRA group just like the national feminist movement is not the same as the few "even consensual sex is rape" people. Funny how you didn't mix up those two points but you somehow mixed up the ones that were identical about the MRA groups.

I suspect that was done purpose to support your rant and call me names, as that is your style, but hey, I could be wrong.

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28-02-2016, 08:09 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2016 08:12 PM by carol.)
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:00 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Wow. I cannot wrap my head around how many people in this thread are responding to pre-conceived opinions about members instead of responding to the posts those members make. Too bad. This thread could be a third the length and contain some very interesting discussion. Instead it's filled with people having to repeatedly explain their points because of all the assumptions that are being made. No

May be a hot topic to some people...I am curious though, and willing to listen and learn...I have heard two other people say the same things about feminism, and they were under 30...so I may be out of touch about how people interprete the word "feminism" now.
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28-02-2016, 08:14 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:09 PM)carol Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:00 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Wow. I cannot wrap my head around how many people in this thread are responding to pre-conceived opinions about members instead of responding to the posts those members make. Too bad. This thread could be a third the length and contain some very interesting discussion. Instead it's filled with people having to repeatedly explain their points because of all the assumptions that are being made. No

May be a hot topic to some people...I am curious though, and willing to listen and learn...I have heard two other people say the same things about feminism, and they were all under 30...so I may be out of touch about how people interprete the word "feminism" now.

I think the high jacking of labels has a lot to answer for when dealing with either feminism or MRA's. Both sides have extremists that use and abuse the main group, their focus and agenda.

The advantage to high jacking an already established movement is that they can use the numbers to validate and bolster their extremist view that otherwise would remain obscure. It does make it difficult to sort it all out.

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28-02-2016, 08:19 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:14 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:09 PM)carol Wrote:  May be a hot topic to some people...I am curious though, and willing to listen and learn...I have heard two other people say the same things about feminism, and they were all under 30...so I may be out of touch about how people interprete the word "feminism" now.

I think the high jacking of labels has a lot to answer for when dealing with either feminism or MRA's. Both sides have extremists that use and abuse the main group, their focus and agenda.

The advantage to high jacking an already established movement is that they can use the numbers to validate and bolster their extremist view that otherwise would remain obscure. It does make it difficult to sort it all out.

I think you are correct. Perhaps that should be considered when we are on this thread- that people have very different ideas about what feminists and the MRA are about...depending upon our backgrounds and how we define the movements.
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28-02-2016, 08:20 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 06:35 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 04:30 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Just asking to be clear.

Is this question USA related or world related?

It's definitely fueled, or at least fostered on the internet first and foremost. The most prominent of these nutjobs are from America, Canada, the UK, and Australia, as far as I've seen. I'm sure there are supporters from other corners of the world, but it seems to be Western phenomenon. I invite others to correct me as I'm not an expert and this is not my scene.

Feminism is not an issue in Islamic countries?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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28-02-2016, 08:22 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:20 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 06:35 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  It's definitely fueled, or at least fostered on the internet first and foremost. The most prominent of these nutjobs are from America, Canada, the UK, and Australia, as far as I've seen. I'm sure there are supporters from other corners of the world, but it seems to be Western phenomenon. I invite others to correct me as I'm not an expert and this is not my scene.

Feminism is not an issue in Islamic countries?

No, it's a death sentence.

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28-02-2016, 08:26 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
Ugh, I try to avoid discussions on feminism. A few weeks ago I unsubbed from a bunch of atheist Youtube channels that have become platforms for one-sided anti-feminazi or anti-MRA rhetoric. I just don't really care to listen to people's opinions on this stuff, unless it's in the form of a nuanced two-way discussion.

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28-02-2016, 08:29 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:19 PM)carol Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:14 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  I think the high jacking of labels has a lot to answer for when dealing with either feminism or MRA's. Both sides have extremists that use and abuse the main group, their focus and agenda.

The advantage to high jacking an already established movement is that they can use the numbers to validate and bolster their extremist view that otherwise would remain obscure. It does make it difficult to sort it all out.

I think you are correct. Perhaps that should be considered when we are on this thread- that people have very different ideas about what feminists and the MRA are about...depending upon our backgrounds and how we define the movements.

There's nothing wrong with the MRA wanting equality in the family court system. I want the system to be fair. As a CASA I've seen it all from both parents and very little of it good. There's also nothing wrong with feminism wanting equal rights and opportunities for women. It doesn't mean they should be treated better just equal. Equal socially, educationally, in careers, in health and in life.

But to bastardize that for your own perverse reasons is not okay and should be watched for and not assumed that one thing is like another, even if it has a similar name.

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28-02-2016, 08:32 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:20 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Feminism is not an issue in Islamic countries?

It is. That is why the Tumblr feminist crowd is such a problem. They don't actually care about real feminist issues. They have nothing to say regarding the horrific treatment of women under such regimes.

They prefer to spend their time blogging about "manspreading", crying about "microaggressions", and accusing all men of being born rapists. Oh, and trying to push the myth of the wage gap through deliberately misrepresenting the statistics.

Funnily enough, despite all their cries of "rape culture" in the United States, they never seem to say anything about countries which actually have a rape culture.

I'm all for feminism, but the kind of people that Dark Light was referring to absolutely disgust me. It's crybullying in its purest form, and nothing more.

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28-02-2016, 08:33 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:29 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:19 PM)carol Wrote:  I think you are correct. Perhaps that should be considered when we are on this thread- that people have very different ideas about what feminists and the MRA are about...depending upon our backgrounds and how we define the movements.

There's nothing wrong with the MRA wanting equality in the family court system. I want the system to be fair. As a CASA I've seen it all from both parents and very little of it good. There's also nothing wrong with feminism wanting equal rights and opportunities for women. It doesn't mean they should be treated better just equal. Equal socially, educationally, in careers, in health and in life.

But to bastardize that for your own perverse reasons is not okay and should be watched for and not assumed that one thing is like another, even if it has a similar name.

well said. Clap
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