WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
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28-02-2016, 08:35 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:08 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 03:56 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  This is a false equivalence then. I'd wager anything you have RoK/Roosh v's gang in mind when you mentioned the 'we should have the right to rape crowd.' RoK not only don't identify as MRA's but absolutely reject them. And you know this, because I drilled this into your brains a while back in another thread - this is why you chose to mention these so-called pro-rape guys only as a group of MRA 'types.' No MRA has ever espoused want for the right to rape.

Just a feminist pushing the narrative at the cost of facts again.

In your example of an extremist feminist, though; I know exactly who you're talking about and they very much do identify as a feminist. They love their feminist theory and feminist literature like any great feminist should.

No, it is not a false equivalency.

There are people who use the extremist men's rights RoK posts as a way to criticize or invalidate the national MRA equal parent rights movement. Just like there are people who use extremist feminist posts to criticize or invalidate the national feminist movement. That is what I posted. In fact I posted it twice, once in reply and again in reply to HobbitGirl's question which you even copied here. How can you read it, copy it and reply to it and still not get it unless you're being purposefully obtuse as well as taking my comment out of context to suit your rant?

I don't see how more clear I could be. I did not say the MRA equal parental rights movement supported rape, not ever. That you say I said that, is the lie but it is yours not mine.

But the RoK men are a "Men's Rights" group in as much as they are men and they are claiming a right for men and have a movement to forward their agenda. It is not the same agenda as the national MRA group just like the national feminist movement is not the same as the few "even consensual sex is rape" people. Funny how you didn't mix up those two points but you somehow mixed up the ones that were identical about the MRA groups.

I suspect that was done purpose to support your rant and call me names, as that is your style, but hey, I could be wrong.

Literally none of this addresses my previously clearly stated contentions. You are equivocating.

You are drawing upon an actual person who identifies as a feminist to fill your example of an extreme feminist, but use RoK - who neither identify as, but outright oppose MRA's - as an example of extreme MRA's. This is the inconsistency which I hold contention with, and which makes a false equivalence.

I have contention with you piggybacking RoK unto MRM when there is no grounds to do so, and all grounds not to.

That you relate at all RoK with the MRM is what I want you to adress. I want you to either retract your statement that RoK are types of MRA's, or provide evidence that suggests they do, in any number more than 5 (that's astronomically low) consider themselves MRA's. No more equivocation.
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28-02-2016, 08:40 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:20 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Feminism is not an issue in Islamic countries?

It is. That is why the Tumblr feminist crowd is such a problem. They don't actually care about real feminist issues. They have nothing to say regarding the horrific treatment of women under such regimes.

They prefer to spend their time blogging about "manspreading", crying about "microaggressions", and accusing all men of being born rapists. Oh, and trying to push the myth of the wage gap through deliberately misrepresenting the statistics.

Funnily enough, despite all their cries of "rape culture" in the United States, they never seem to say anything about countries which actually have a rape culture.

I'm all for feminism, but the kind of people that Dark Light was referring to absolutely disgust me. It's crybullying in its purest form, and nothing more.

Six years you been articulating what I've been thinking.


Stop. It's creepy.


But seriously, there isn't extremist feminists in Islamic countries, because, as Heatheness pointed out, being outwardly feminist in any way is a death sentence. In fact I think something pretty much all of us would agree on is that there are some islamic countries that could use an extreme-feminism enema.

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28-02-2016, 08:40 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
So do you have to consider yourself something to be something now?

I guess having no care to consider labels in this regard I didn't know some view them as if they're a club you seek acceotence into.

Idk, I guess I was more under the scope of viewing, if you don't actively believe in god/deity concepts as real than you're an atheist. Not if you label yourself atheist you are atheist

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-02-2016, 08:42 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:20 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Feminism is not an issue in Islamic countries?

It is. That is why the Tumblr feminist crowd is such a problem. They don't actually care about real feminist issues. They have nothing to say regarding the horrific treatment of women under such regimes.

They prefer to spend their time blogging about "manspreading", crying about "microaggressions", and accusing all men of being born rapists. Oh, and trying to push the myth of the wage gap through deliberately misrepresenting the statistics.

Funnily enough, despite all their cries of "rape culture" in the United States, they never seem to say anything about countries which actually have a rape culture.

I'm all for feminism, but the kind of people that Dark Light was referring to absolutely disgust me. It's crybullying in its purest form, and nothing more.
Sharp as a needle as always, Unbeliever. Thumbsup

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28-02-2016, 08:47 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:20 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Feminism is not an issue in Islamic countries?

It is. That is why the Tumblr feminist crowd is such a problem. They don't actually care about real feminist issues. They have nothing to say regarding the horrific treatment of women under such regimes.

They prefer to spend their time blogging about "manspreading", crying about "microaggressions", and accusing all men of being born rapists. Oh, and trying to push the myth of the wage gap through deliberately misrepresenting the statistics.

Funnily enough, despite all their cries of "rape culture" in the United States, they never seem to say anything about countries which actually have a rape culture.

I'm all for feminism, but the kind of people that Dark Light was referring to absolutely disgust me. It's crybullying in its purest form, and nothing more.
Are the xanga and LiveJournal feminists a problem too? Where I don't get these contentions is the social orders, I suppose, of what is considered a voice of consequence vs irrelevancy.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-02-2016, 08:59 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:32 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:20 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Feminism is not an issue in Islamic countries?

It is. That is why the Tumblr feminist crowd is such a problem. They don't actually care about real feminist issues. They have nothing to say regarding the horrific treatment of women under such regimes.

They prefer to spend their time blogging about "manspreading", crying about "microaggressions", and accusing all men of being born rapists. Oh, and trying to push the myth of the wage gap through deliberately misrepresenting the statistics.

Funnily enough, despite all their cries of "rape culture" in the United States, they never seem to say anything about countries which actually have a rape culture.

I'm all for feminism, but the kind of people that Dark Light was referring to absolutely disgust me. It's crybullying in its purest form, and nothing more.

Sure they do, they talk about it all the time. Maybe not where you look but that doesn't mean it's not addressed and in a big way. That being said, there isn't a lot we can do from here but be supportive socially. And support women who flee that area and help them adjust to a new culture.

Secondly, just because a problem is worse somewhere else does not negate the work that still needs to be done here. Just because rape culture is more horrific there does not mean we let our victims down here and tell them to shut and stop crying about your rape. Seriously, that just invalidating one persons grief for another's. No need for that. Would you tell the MRA men to stop crying about their unfair treatment in family court when other countries the men have it much worse, would you?

So even though I understand your point you are still painting with a broad brush. As a fact I have no idea what microaggression or manspreading is so not ALL feminists know or do anything. There are lots of problems in other countries that are worse than ours it shouldn't mean we give up trying to solve our own.

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28-02-2016, 09:09 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:35 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:08 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  No, it is not a false equivalency.

There are people who use the extremist men's rights RoK posts as a way to criticize or invalidate the national MRA equal parent rights movement. Just like there are people who use extremist feminist posts to criticize or invalidate the national feminist movement. That is what I posted. In fact I posted it twice, once in reply and again in reply to HobbitGirl's question which you even copied here. How can you read it, copy it and reply to it and still not get it unless you're being purposefully obtuse as well as taking my comment out of context to suit your rant?

I don't see how more clear I could be. I did not say the MRA equal parental rights movement supported rape, not ever. That you say I said that, is the lie but it is yours not mine.

But the RoK men are a "Men's Rights" group in as much as they are men and they are claiming a right for men and have a movement to forward their agenda. It is not the same agenda as the national MRA group just like the national feminist movement is not the same as the few "even consensual sex is rape" people. Funny how you didn't mix up those two points but you somehow mixed up the ones that were identical about the MRA groups.

I suspect that was done purpose to support your rant and call me names, as that is your style, but hey, I could be wrong.

Literally none of this addresses my previously clearly stated contentions. You are equivocating.

You are drawing upon an actual person who identifies as a feminist to fill your example of an extreme feminist, but use RoK - who neither identify as, but outright oppose MRA's - as an example of extreme MRA's. This is the inconsistency which I hold contention with, and which makes a false equivalence.

I have contention with you piggybacking RoK unto MRM when there is no grounds to do so, and all grounds not to.

That you relate at all RoK with the MRM is what I want you to adress. I want you to either retract your statement that RoK are types of MRA's, or provide evidence that suggests they do, in any number more than 5 (that's astronomically low) consider themselves MRA's. No more equivocation.

Are you dense? I said now for the forth and last time, "some people have used the RoK posts as an argument to invalidate the MRA's."

But as it also happens they are a men's rights group. They are men claiming a right as men and that makes them a men's rights group. It isn't the same rights that the MRA's are claiming but they do have their agenda and it's still to claim rights for men.

I don't care if you don't like it. Talk to them about it, not me.

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28-02-2016, 09:17 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 08:59 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Sure they do, they talk about it all the time. Maybe not where you look but that doesn't mean it's not addressed and in a big way.

I'm talking specifically about the Tumblr crowd, not the actual feminist movement as a whole. Tumblr "feminism" is just bullying and misandry using the label of a politically-unimpeachable movement.

I don't deny that there are feminists who actually care about this issue. I don't even deny that they are doing everything they can. I'm just pointing out that the issues most people have with "feminism" today stem from the toxic, immature branch-culture that has co-opted the name.

I don't disagree with any of your points. I just assumed that the phrase "Tumblr feminist" was clearer than it apparently was.

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28-02-2016, 09:22 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 09:17 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:59 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Sure they do, they talk about it all the time. Maybe not where you look but that doesn't mean it's not addressed and in a big way.

I'm talking specifically about the Tumblr crowd, not the actual feminist movement as a whole. Tumblr "feminism" is just bullying and misandry using the label of a politically-unimpeachable movement.

I don't deny that there are feminists who actually care about this issue. I don't even deny that they are doing everything they can. I'm just pointing out that the issues most people have with "feminism" today stem from the toxic, immature branch-culture that has co-opted the name.

I don't disagree with any of your points. I just assumed that the phrase "Tumblr feminist" was clearer than it apparently was.

Oh okay, sorry, I don't know what tumbler is either. Is that like a twitter thing, I don't do that either. Sadcryface I barely do FB.

Is it on the net or txt thing on your phone, some of this stuff I just have no interest in so I never looked it up. Sorry, I didn't get the relevance.

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28-02-2016, 09:28 PM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 09:17 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 08:59 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Sure they do, they talk about it all the time. Maybe not where you look but that doesn't mean it's not addressed and in a big way.

I'm talking specifically about the Tumblr crowd, not the actual feminist movement as a whole. Tumblr "feminism" is just bullying and misandry using the label of a politically-unimpeachable movement.

I don't deny that there are feminists who actually care about this issue. I don't even deny that they are doing everything they can. I'm just pointing out that the issues most people have with "feminism" today stem from the toxic, immature branch-culture that has co-opted the name.

I don't disagree with any of your points. I just assumed that the phrase "Tumblr feminist" was clearer than it apparently was.

I had to look at xanga, livejournal, and tumblr to understand just a little bit about what you were talking about. ( I googled them with feminism as a term) I found it depressing, because one of the strengths of the old feminist movement I had been involved with was the constant interaction, questioning and debating involved. That is essential for people who want to learn and grow. Without interaction and challenging assumptions, any movement can stagnate. I was saddened to read some very stupid posts. I agree with your opinion about the more childish and self involved posts I read.

However, (and this is not addressed to you, as you made your thoughts very clear) I also think that the idea of judging a movement based upon individual blogs may not be wise- how many of these people are actually contributing members in a group, doing something for human rights? Does the media itself attract shallow, narcissistic woman? Although a blog can be mildly interesting, it is also very boring, because it is the interaction between people that causes them to rethink old positions. Perhaps the serious thinkers are not always found in xanga,tumblr, and livejournal.
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