WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
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28-02-2016, 09:27 AM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
Nothing happened to the feminist movement. That is an asinine assumption to make that because some people have taken extreme stances, that they've "hijacked" an entire movement.

Feminism is still alive and well and trying to promote equality of, get this, EVERYONE by balancing out the disparity between male and female.

I'm a feminist. I'm a humanist. These aren't incompatible.

As for the "shit tons" of the people who've taken extreme stances, there are more that haven't. There are a lot of misogynists out there to. Who cares? What point does this make? These people are real?

There are a "shit ton" of "men's rights" activists out there too. And a "shit ton" of pro-rape groups. They are fringe groups of extremist morons. Drinking Beverage

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28-02-2016, 09:34 AM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
It's far easier to focus on the fringes and extremes of a movement by dismissing them as "crazy" and assuming that they represent the core of the movement, instead of actually engaging with the arguments being put forth.

Are the extremists on the feminism movement hurting it? Maybe, but for the most part, they are damaging its reputation with those who are already bent against it. Why not address what they are saying and advocating for instead of taking an extreme view of their extreme view? Or better yet, stop looking for the extremists and start looking for the rest of us that represent feminism.



(this would be akin to finding some raging moron who is an atheist and makes videos advocating for the death of religious people and claiming that they represent atheism and then asking "what has happened to the modern atheist movement?")

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28-02-2016, 09:35 AM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
Still call myself a feminist? Yup.

Similarly, I still call myself an atheist even though I cringe at some of the positions that some atheists advocate. Even when I think that those people are doing more harm than good to atheism in general, I don't disassociate myself from the atheist label.

Embarrassed by "modern" feminism? Nope. I do find some of them cringe-inducing.

Questioning past generations' answers to social problems is valuable, even (or especially) if the conclusion turns out to be that an older solution works better. Even if I consider some young feminists' proposed answers silly or misguided, I'd rather have them thinking than accepting the status quo just because an authority told them so.
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28-02-2016, 09:47 AM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 09:24 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 09:02 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Well, it helps us to get a better understanding of reality, doesn't it?

How do you know he's trying to dismiss something?

EK, all you're doing is showing your own shortcomings (intellectually) and inability to have any control over your emotions.

Gilgamesh listed off some statistics. He didn't even really give his opinion, and then you lose it emotionally. Huh
You act like they exist in a vaccum

Those wanting any exampkes, how about workforce wages that when women have a child their promotions/pay increases become less likely but when men have a child they in contrast wind up more likely than counterparts to get promoted/pay increase. Allegaged roles are outlined in the force and this effect largely would be harmful to single working women.
And do you think this is because sexism? If not why mention it? If so; it is actually directly attributable to women making the choice to take time off after having a child, (and taking time off whether they will it or no to deliver).
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28-02-2016, 09:49 AM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 09:47 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 09:24 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You act like they exist in a vaccum

Those wanting any exampkes, how about workforce wages that when women have a child their promotions/pay increases become less likely but when men have a child they in contrast wind up more likely than counterparts to get promoted/pay increase. Allegaged roles are outlined in the force and this effect largely would be harmful to single working women.
And do you think this is because sexism? If not why mention it? If so; it is actually directly attributable to women making the choice to take time off after having a child, (and taking time off whether they will it or no to deliver).

It's actually that or that's the perception?

Do men with children then show a choice to take less time off than those men/women without children?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-02-2016, 09:58 AM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 09:34 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Are the extremists on the feminism movement hurting it? Maybe, but for the most part, they are damaging its reputation with those who are already bent against it.

Nah, people are seeing feminism for the cult that it is.

A yougov poll shows that in 2013, 28% of Americans identified as feminists.

A vox poll shows that in 2015 that number drops to 18%.

Both these polls also asked the participants if they believe in gender equality. Obviously that number is much higher than those who identified as feminists, meaning they think feminism is something other then gender equality.
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28-02-2016, 10:02 AM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 09:58 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 09:34 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Are the extremists on the feminism movement hurting it? Maybe, but for the most part, they are damaging its reputation with those who are already bent against it.

Nah, people are seeing feminism for the cult that it is.

Obviously that number is much higher than those who identified as feminists, meaning they think feminism is something other then gender equality.

That makes no sense. Only If you blatant assume the correct reasoning behind that concept. Which you have, yet multiple factors could be the cause. Such as public image, historical contexts, awareness of many details beyond just oh that's just something other than equality.

You can be a femminist and a mra. If people were waking up and seeing things as they really are. They'd learn labels aren't black and white or gave only one meaning to them.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-02-2016, 10:26 AM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 09:49 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 09:47 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  And do you think this is because sexism? If not why mention it? If so; it is actually directly attributable to women making the choice to take time off after having a child, (and taking time off whether they will it or no to deliver).

It's actually that or that's the perception?

Do men with children then show a choice to take less time off than those men/women without children?

This is anecdotal (heard it just a couple of days ago on NPR, that is), but what seems to happen is that employees who are willing to put aside private lives to make themselves available whenever the employer requires receive a premium for such. So while employees may work the same number of hours per week and have the same quality of output, those who are willing to give up control over when they put these hours in get more money.

As it stands now, this disproportionately affects even women without children, because women more often take on family obligations like taking care of elderly parents. I suspect that over time, as more men turn to flextime schedules and commit more time to their families, the gender disparity might be reduced, but probably not the compensation/career disparity.
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28-02-2016, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2016 10:51 AM by Gilgamesh.)
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 10:26 AM)julep Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 09:49 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It's actually that or that's the perception?

Do men with children then show a choice to take less time off than those men/women without children?

This is anecdotal (heard it just a couple of days ago on NPR, that is), but what seems to happen is that employees who are willing to put aside private lives to make themselves available whenever the employer requires receive a premium for such. So while employees may work the same number of hours per week and have the same quality of output, those who are willing to give up control over when they put these hours in get more money.

As it stands now, this disproportionately affects even women without children, because women more often take on family obligations like taking care of elderly parents. I suspect that over time, as more men turn to flextime schedules and commit more time to their families, the gender disparity might be reduced, but probably not the compensation/career disparity.

Why say it disproportionately affects women who take on family obligations, and not people who take on family obligations? You have not shown that women are affected worse or better (disproportionate) in pay than men who make themselves less available; just that they do more often. Such a statement is incorrect, then
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28-02-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: WTF Happened to the "Feminism" Movement?
(28-02-2016 09:02 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  EK, all you're doing is showing your own shortcomings (intellectually) and inability to have any control over your emotions.

Gilgamesh listed off some statistics. He didn't even really give his opinion, and then you lose it emotionally. Huh

Context bro. This is not my first rodeo with Gilgamesh. He's already a wanker. I just have little patience for his particular song and dance.

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