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26-03-2017, 09:19 AM
RE: WWlll
double-mint post

#sigh
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26-03-2017, 09:21 AM (This post was last modified: 26-03-2017 09:29 AM by kim.)
RE: WWlll
What good will money be when everyone and everything is blown to shit? Consider

I have to look at any armament build up as threatening but, probably not the way most people do. I see it as terrorism or more unambiguously: manipulation.

An arms build up tells the population(s) that someone is going to make something happen. Zowie, I wasn't too scared before, but I sure as fuck am pissing my pants now. I better look to someone who knows what to do and where to go. Sure; fuck that. Thumbsup

I have zero confidence in my own or any government to properly handle anything concerning my or anyone's safety. Certainly not enough to follow any one of them down some fucking rabbit hole devised to further reinforce history's corrosive, pervasive tribalism.

Frankly, if we really wanted everyone to be safe from our species' self annihilation, the majority of the self appointed, alpha male leadership on the planet could be rounded up and safely placed on an island in the pacific. They could be supplied with food and agrarian means and they could be let to live out their lives, bothering no one but each other.

But, everyone is obviously against my solution and appears to need someone other than themselves to handle what may remain of life as we know it. All because someone thinks their dick is bigger than someone else's and apparently, that's important. Dodgy

Oh well, I guess I'll have to start planning now for my own Mad Kimmies world. Not unlike a Mad Max world - except without a boozed up, bigoted Mel Gibson and definitely, without those suck-a-tit, milk worshiping freaks from that new one.

I'm cool with Charlize Theron, though ... as long as I can drive, most of the time. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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26-03-2017, 09:46 AM
RE: WWlll
If WW 3 started tomorrow it wouldn't bother me personally although it would be a major pisser for my sons and everyone else which wouldn't be so good.
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26-03-2017, 09:57 AM
RE: WWlll
I'm going to make the best case I can for a pacifist approach for personal and political conflict resolution.

With minor setbacks here and there, the world, and indeed every country in the world, is moving "forward" in a technological sense. I put forward in quotations to emphasize I don't necessarily equate technological advancement with the betterment of society. Anyway, technological advances increase one society's ability to unleash destructive forces on another. Therefore, as we move into the future war has more and more potential to be an existential threat. Ultimately this means that our current methods of conflict resolution are not compatible with the long term survival of our species. There will be more destructive weapons than our worst ones already in existence and more people will have access to them. It's an untenable situation. Our current mindset is insane. I think it was Carl Sagan who said in an evolutionary sense we're basically alligators with hydrogen bombs. I beg everyone who reads this to consider hitting the pause button. We're too caught up in the present. Even at the risk of seemingly suicidal vulnerability our only path through this darkness is through pacifism.

As an American I say let's lead by example not force. Over a long enough timeline even something with a very small chance of happening will eventually happen. That means over a long enough timeline there will be a nuclear accident and even a nuclear holocaust. Mutually Assured Destruction will not keep us safe forever. Without even bothering to negotiate disarmament treaties America should dismantle its nuclear arsenal immediately. How can we tell Iran, North Korea, Indonesia, Uganda, whoever that they should accept a world where we should have this capability and they shouldn't? Do we really expect them to act as if they consider themselves inferior? That's ridiculous. We must disarm.

I don't like to do this but since my visions of world peace seem so improbable to people (although I don't understand how anyone could think any kind of future is possible without peace) I propose another alternative to complete nuclear disarmament. We negotiate a treaty where each nuclear power agrees to limit its arsenal to four hydrogen bombs. Surely that's plenty of destructive power to act as a sufficient deterrent. That way, at least a nuclear holocaust could be less than the extinction level event we've come to accept as part of our reality.

Ghandi and MLK both used pacifism as a weapon because violence was an unwinnable strategy. I think the west is also in a situation where Islam cannot be defeated through violence. Atheism must spread. War may essentially be about territory and resources but the tribalism is largely religious. The belief in ridiculous mythologies is universally dangerous. Suicide bombers go to heaven. God is on our side. America is chosen. All of this based in ridiculous, and I mean absolutely moronic creation myths and stupid beliefs in other supernatural bullshit. Billions of people think their skyman is going to come down like superman and save the world. As atheists we have to wake the world up from this dangerous dream. We are on our own and must act like it.

Take violence off the table. In your personal dealings with people and in your political ideals. Humans are copycat creatures. It starts with you. Model peace and maybe we'll reach a higher plane in human evolution. Or we can continue down our current path and destroy ourselves.
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26-03-2017, 10:30 AM
RE: WWlll
No disrespect Fred but pacifism and appeasement doesn't ever work with regards nations and war, think Neville Chamberlain and peace in our time. Ghandi and MLK were civil leaders involved in issues inside their respective countries to my mind that's a whole different ballgame.
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26-03-2017, 10:49 AM
RE: WWlll
Fair enough that Ghandi doesn't prove my case but can you honestly tell me there's any long term hope in our current mindset? Can we really continue on the path we're on?

I don't think we can. If you think about it honestly and come to another conclusion then we're at an intellectual stalemate. If you think we must find a path to peace then please offer suggestions.

Of course, I'm not trying to limit your answers. But for me, I want to find common ground on how we get from here to something reasonable and sustainable.

Absolutely no offense taken.
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26-03-2017, 10:50 AM
RE: WWlll
(26-03-2017 10:30 AM)adey67 Wrote:  No disrespect Fred but pacifism and appeasement doesn't ever work with regards nations and war, think Neville Chamberlain and peace in our time. Ghandi and MLK were civil leaders involved in issues inside their respective countries to my mind that's a whole different ballgame.

Ghandi didn't make it a year into independence before being assassinated and the country was immediately at war with Pakistan. He made a decent effort though.

'Murican Canadian
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26-03-2017, 11:06 AM
RE: WWlll
(26-03-2017 10:49 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Fair enough that Ghandi doesn't prove my case but can you honestly tell me there's any long term hope in our current mindset? Can we really continue on the path we're on?

I don't think we can. If you think about it honestly and come to another conclusion then we're at an intellectual stalemate. If you think we must find a path to peace then please offer suggestions.

Of course, I'm not trying to limit your answers. But for me, I want to find common ground on how we get from here to something reasonable and sustainable.

Absolutely no offense taken.
It would be great if that was possible and I certainly take your points but we have been on this path since the dawn of the nuclear age I cannot honestly offer any suggestions on how to make the world safer apart from mutually assured destruction which inspite of its initials has so far been more than sane, the fly in the ointment is north Korea and India and Pakistan, the wild cards in the bunch, its a dangerous world and I cannot honestly say I have any solutions.
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26-03-2017, 11:08 AM
RE: WWlll
(26-03-2017 06:25 AM)Dom Wrote:  What will it look like?

Is there really a point in putting all that money into outdated methods of war?

What should we invest in to prevent cyber war? Chemical warfare? Poisoning of food supplies? Or?
Well, certainly not what the Trump Administration wants: more big, flashy toys.

Confronting militant/extremist groups like the Islamic State, Taliban or Boko Haram can't be done with expensive toys, but does need specialized training and equipment. Not flashy enough for the White House.

"Only the outlines of Trump’s proposal to lavish money on the military have been drawn up. There’s a request for Congress to add $30 billion to this year’s defense budget and a vague plan to add $54 billion to next year’s spending.

Not included in those plans: money for the best infantry weapons, the safest troop-lift helicopters, the most protective lightweight body armor. Instead, grunts will have to settle for budget leftovers with antiquated rifles, helicopters built for their grandfathers during the Vietnam War and communications gear that is overweight and unreliable."

https://juliuscizblog.wordpress.com/2017...ng-grunts/

Electronics warfare (or "cyberwar" if you must) is ongoing, and we are not doing all that well.
Five Facts About Cyber War
One big problem - lack of people with the right training. And we are falling further behind with that as schools in the USA do not place any priority on STEM subjects, and do not encourage students to pursue college degrees in tech and engineering.
Government agencies have to look outside the USA for new hires because of the lack of "home grown" engineers and techs.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...h-science/
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26-03-2017, 11:10 AM
RE: WWlll
Do you agree with my premise (that I borrowed from Hawking) that over a long enough time line a nuclear disaster is an inevitability?
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