War with North Korea impending
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22-09-2017, 07:21 PM
RE: War with North Korea impending
(22-09-2017 01:59 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(22-09-2017 01:46 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  Or it could all be a coordinated bunch of bullshit between Kim and Putin and Trump.
Benefiting all of them.
Trump gets to look tough.
Putin gets to play statesman and Kim gets an improved economy.
They all walk away heros in their country.
Well, parts of Trump's country.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/8511...ted-States

Trump is in no way smart enough to pull this off. Big Grin

Yeah totally agree. There's just that slippery little problem of human nature in the mix. Trump and Un working together glove in glove to pull the wool over the rest of humanity, yeah, right. These are two male 7 year olds waving their willies at each other, it's fun to imagine there are deeper and deeper levels to their machinations, but Trump really is less than skin deep, he is what he appears to be, an insecure know-nothing who will give the green light to launch an attack on NK the second he feels Un has more Twitter followers.

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23-09-2017, 03:38 PM
RE: War with North Korea impending
(22-09-2017 01:41 PM)BryanS Wrote:  If we have gone as far as China and Russia is willing to and have pulled the trigger on the last things we can do unilaterally, we already are at the end of the sanctions stage of this conflict. There are already signs the sanctions are starting to have an effect, with costs of goods increasing and signs of diminishing supplies of basic needs. I don't think Kim Jong Un will wait until there is widespread starvation before he lashes out. This conflict will come to a head one way or the other within months, not years.

Folks,

As a relevant aside, I've done a little research today. The Iranians have their largest missiles in factories and bunkers 500 metres under mountain rock. I'm no expert but would be surprised if the Yankee nukes could penetrate. The Iranians are saying that they have copied NK deep bunker technology so we can expect NK to have similar deep installations. These are both mountainous countries.

This would indicate a failure of a Yankee first strike to take out the missiles. Given that, it would be sensible for NK and Iran to avoid firing first, as the defensive advantage would be lost. Of course, we don't now if the Iranians have deliverable nukes, although a large number of conventional/chemical/biological missiles would likely overwhelm Israel's defences. NKs targets would be bases in South Korea and elsewhere near to the peninsular.

Also regarding "lashes out" the Chinese have said that they will not allow a war started by the Yankees in this part of the world and Putin has made similar, but more nuanced remarks. NK will be aware that they hold the key in defence but would lose it in attack.

D.
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23-09-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: War with North Korea impending
North Korea, Iran, The Always Sunshine Cult in Your Neighbor's Basement

Over time whoever wants the means to destroy will develop it

Acting surprised over nuclear proliferation is as naive as a child that doesn't understand why they're burying grandma

Nukes, shit that's worse than nukes, biological and chemical and shit we haven't even dreamed up

This idea that a select few are going to hold all the cards forever... well fuck, nobody thinks that.

But for some reason everyone acts like that's what they believe. No matter how unrealistic and totally impossible everyone thinks disarmament is the obvious glaring in your face like practically ejaculating down your throat it's so fucking obvious truth is...


our only hope is trust

we have to disarm ourselves first

unless we muster up THAT courage, real courage - the courage of pacifism, we're fucking stuck in this shit and this shit is not fucking working
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24-09-2017, 05:19 AM
RE: War with North Korea impending
That's all nice and well until you get sociopaths.
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24-09-2017, 08:13 AM
RE: War with North Korea impending
(23-09-2017 04:32 PM)ImFred Wrote:  North Korea, Iran, The Always Sunshine Cult in Your Neighbor's Basement

Over time whoever wants the means to destroy will develop it

Acting surprised over nuclear proliferation is as naive as a child that doesn't understand why they're burying grandma

Nukes, shit that's worse than nukes, biological and chemical and shit we haven't even dreamed up

This idea that a select few are going to hold all the cards forever... well fuck, nobody thinks that.

But for some reason everyone acts like that's what they believe. No matter how unrealistic and totally impossible everyone thinks disarmament is the obvious glaring in your face like practically ejaculating down your throat it's so fucking obvious truth is...


our only hope is trust

we have to disarm ourselves first

unless we muster up THAT courage, real courage - the courage of pacifism, we're fucking stuck in this shit and this shit is not fucking working

I don't think there's ever been any great surprise that wmds proliferate, who ever guaranteed only the "select few" would get them? All that could ever have been done was slow the spread down. Unilateral disarmament IS unrealistic and totally impossible. The history of nations is a history of attempts to one-up each other, not a lot of voluntary stepping down.

Not that there's a rosy alternative. This seems to be a situation of no good outcomes, ending in mushroom clouds somewhere someday.

Today Trump made his latest bluff, the usual shit, "NK leaders won't be around much longer if you strike the US." Yeah, no shit.

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24-09-2017, 09:08 AM
RE: War with North Korea impending
(24-09-2017 05:19 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  That's all nice and well until you get sociopaths.

There's two right now who would probably be pushing the button if they weren't so busy jerking off to themselves on TV.
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24-09-2017, 09:12 AM
RE: War with North Korea impending
Quote:Not that there's a rosy alternative. This seems to be a situation of no good outcomes, ending in mushroom clouds somewhere someday.

I hate to always be the Pollyanna around here but maybe we can try for something better.
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24-09-2017, 02:05 PM
RE: War with North Korea impending
Something I haven't noticed anyone bring up here (forgive me if I missed it) is that wars make even disliked presidents more popular. Look at how Brian Williams glazed over in amazement and awe when Trump fired the Tomahawk missiles at Syria, for example. He described it, slack jawed, as "beautiful".

Now Trump craves popularity, acclaim, and praise ... his poll numbers have always been in the toilet ... he's losing on multiple fronts. I'm convinced he WANTS a war. At least one. It doesn't matter if it's North Korea, Iran, Syria -- any war will do. It's the last refuge of all fascistic leaders.

Why else would he be deliberately, openly, and unambiguously goading Kim? He just wants Kim to make some sort of provocation that will be seen at least by his base as sufficient provocation to attack ... and be seen as muscular and decisive where all Trump's predecessors have failed to be.

I have said since Trump's election that war of some kind is not a matter of if, but when. And increasingly I think crushing North Korea is Trump's preferred war.
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24-09-2017, 02:12 PM
RE: War with North Korea impending
(24-09-2017 02:05 PM)mordant Wrote:  Now Trump craves popularity, acclaim, and praise ... his poll numbers have always been in the toilet ... he's losing on multiple fronts. I'm convinced he WANTS a war. At least one. It doesn't matter if it's North Korea, Iran, Syria -- any war will do. It's the last refuge of all fascistic leaders.

Erm, yes, but he craves attention. Love or hate, it doesn't matter. He is in the spot light.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-09-2017, 02:35 PM
RE: War with North Korea impending
(24-09-2017 02:05 PM)mordant Wrote:  Something I haven't noticed anyone bring up here (forgive me if I missed it) is that wars make even disliked presidents more popular. Look at how Brian Williams glazed over in amazement and awe when Trump fired the Tomahawk missiles at Syria, for example. He described it, slack jawed, as "beautiful".

Now Trump craves popularity, acclaim, and praise ... his poll numbers have always been in the toilet ... he's losing on multiple fronts. I'm convinced he WANTS a war. At least one. It doesn't matter if it's North Korea, Iran, Syria -- any war will do. It's the last refuge of all fascistic leaders.

Why else would he be deliberately, openly, and unambiguously goading Kim? He just wants Kim to make some sort of provocation that will be seen at least by his base as sufficient provocation to attack ... and be seen as muscular and decisive where all Trump's predecessors have failed to be.

I have said since Trump's election that war of some kind is not a matter of if, but when. And increasingly I think crushing North Korea is Trump's preferred war.

I agree. I think he's even more keen to press the button the closer the Mueller investigation gets to finding some really damning evidence. I think his preferred method is a nuclear strike, because HE gets the credit for that - no generals, no strategies, just take out Pyongyang. I doubt personally that even with all the recent launches and tests that NK's been doing, that they can mount a response really - even if they manage to launch a missile chances are either that it hits somewhere not USA or doesn't even hit. And they'll blow as much of South Korea to kingdom come as they can, but Trump doesn't care at *all* about South Korea - I mean, he may say he does, but he's definitely happy to risk their lives and not American ones, so it's all win from his perspective.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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