War with North Korea impending
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28-09-2017, 06:22 PM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2017 06:26 PM by mordant.)
RE: War with North Korea impending
(28-09-2017 03:08 PM)ImFred Wrote:  "Hive mind" is a very common and harmful stereotype of Asian cultures. On real inspection it turns out Vietnam, Japan, and Korea are all actually made up of individuals. Their mothers don't want to use their children as fodder any more than ours do.
I was not aware it was a stereotype or offensive. I did not mean to convey it in that way. But then my poor wife had to inform me years ago that "Oriental" is now offensive, so I suppose I have to plead being raised by midwestern parents who had me late in life. I haven't always kept up well with what words various groups have decided are offensive and which correct ones to use, but my heart is in the right place. I shall avoid that term henceforth, and thank you for clueing me in.

To illustrate where I was coming from: In Hanoi there are for the most part no traffic control signals and people just stroll out into brisk traffic and so long as you don't make sudden changes in speed or trajectory the traffic flows around you. It's quite terrifying for a westerner to do something as simple as cross the street. You end up waiting around for a clutch of locals to cross and blend in.

Here in the US you are expected to look both ways and make sure several tons of steel are not bearing down on you. In many parts of the country, cars still have the right-of-way, which strikes me as the prudent option, and in some parts, pedestrians have the right of way.

I'm in one of those latter states, and the combination of legal sanction for what in my youth was known rather unkindly as "jaywalking" and the high number of asian students at university here, combined with the poor connection in most young people's still-immature minds between cause and effect, means that I drive like an old man now because someone, anyone can come shambling out into the street as if you don't exist, and I live in terror of mowing them down. They even stop and converse in the middle of the road as if it's the most normal thing in the world.

I am at least twice as cautious because I understand the difference between the social contract around crossing the street in most parts of Asia relative to most parts of the US. Perhaps it is better characterized as a high tolerance for very little personal space and a far more cooperative and trust-based approach to coexistence. Americans likely represent the opposite extreme (the rugged individualist).

As this applies to potential war I am still of the opinion that asians will, culturally and socially, tend to care less about personal sacrifice if they believe that sacrifice will protect their society and culture, than your average Westerner. If actually find this admirable in many respects. Of course, there are individual exceptions, and no mother PREFERS to use her children as cannon fodder. I wouldn't suggest such a thing. It isn't a question that they're any less human, just that they have a different calculus about cost vs benefits vs duty. It isn't to suggest they like or prefer suffering, just that they aren't so afraid of hardship as we often are.

It isn't a question of right and wrong or good and evil, just differences, which it is beneficial to understand and be aware of when trying to understand how others handle themselves in their affairs. It is certainly better than demonizing people we don't understand. We tried that with Japanese-Americans in WW2 and that didn't turn out so hot, for them OR for us; it abused them and diminished our humanity as well.

As I walk among people in my part of town near the university campus probably half the people I pass during the school year are Asian. Some of them are quite Westernized but most come directly from China and elsewhere in that region and I can see where the WW2-era stereotypes come from; as you pass them on the street they don't generally meet your eyes and smile like we 'Muricans expect them to, so one (bogus) explanation might be that they are hiding something; what's their problem?

I simply don't want to see that kind of thing repeated here in my community or in international affairs that could readily lead to war, possibly nuclear. I'm not passing judgment on such customs, conventions and assumptions, merely mentioning that they exist and should be taken into account when "reading" each other.
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28-09-2017, 06:37 PM
RE: War with North Korea impending
(28-09-2017 01:13 PM)adey67 Wrote:  
(28-09-2017 01:07 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  SecWar Stimson advised Marshall of the above schedule. Tell him he got it wrong if you want.
Well you're the expert on this so I bow to your knowledge on this matter Bowing

I'll ask out of curiosity what is the source of this info (obviously Marshall himself, I mean what document do we have that in). I'd never heard it and thought even the Chief of Staff wouldn't have had access to the inner info at Los Alamos where they were building the things.

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28-09-2017, 06:41 PM
RE: War with North Korea impending
Yeah walking in traffic in crowded third world cities is surreal.

Quote:they aren't so afraid of hardship as we often are.

I know what you're saying and why. I just think when you boil it down to the nitty gritty we all end up shitting our pants.

There's an argument to be made for what you're saying. Probably a little truth in both our positions.
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28-09-2017, 06:49 PM
RE: War with North Korea impending
(28-09-2017 06:41 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Yeah walking in traffic in crowded third world cities is surreal.

Quote:they aren't so afraid of hardship as we often are.

I know what you're saying and why. I just think when you boil it down to the nitty gritty we all end up shitting our pants.

There's an argument to be made for what you're saying. Probably a little truth in both our positions.
Fair enough, thanks.

I think you're right to emphasize our common humanity. I have usually heard that expressed as "we all put our pants on the same way". You made me smile with recasting that as "we all shit our pants the same way". Very apropos.

The other side of the coin is there's more than one way of being and if you don't want to read a compliment as an insult an start a war over it it's good to understand the differences and why they exist too.
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28-09-2017, 07:14 PM
RE: War with North Korea impending
I'd be happy to see numbers on US nuclear production from 1945-46 if you have them handy, 'Zilla.
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