Warning: Rage-Provoking Stupidity
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26-05-2016, 05:12 PM
RE: Warning: Rage-Provoking Stupidity
(26-05-2016 04:30 AM)unsapien Wrote:  When I read articles like that I forget that I am against the death penalty.

We have a similar case in my neck of the woods too:

"I burned him because I felt the devil in him" the father and ex-Mountie said at the torture trial of his son.

The father is claiming that his own terrible childhood and PTSD is to blame and that he didn't know that what he was doing was wrong. I don't know what kind of testing and training you have to go through to get into the RCMP, but I'm pretty sure that "making sure an officer is able to tell right from wrong" is in there somewhere.

At least the kid in this case escaped and lived, but what will he have to deal with for the rest of his life. There are worst things you can do to a person in this world then just kill them.
And the high caflooting debaters ask atheists what keeps them from eating babies. It sure ain't whoever talks to these guys!
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26-05-2016, 05:19 PM
RE: Warning: Rage-Provoking Stupidity
My sister used to foster kids. One woman arrived at her house demanding her baby back. The baby was hiding in the closet having seen momma drive up. My sister said the kid wasn't there. The kid was a 7 year old who had been left home alone for 3 days and tried to heat up a can of Campbell's soup without opening it a year before. But a week later the state agency that had placed the child with my sister came and got her to return her to the mother. less than a year later the child died in another fire situation. This time the whole house burned when a couple of kids built a fire to heat the house when it was below freezing outside.
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26-05-2016, 05:27 PM
RE: Warning: Rage-Provoking Stupidity
(26-05-2016 05:19 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  My sister used to foster kids. One woman arrived at her house demanding her baby back. The baby was hiding in the closet having seen momma drive up. My sister said the kid wasn't there. The kid was a 7 year old who had been left home alone for 3 days and tried to heat up a can of Campbell's soup without opening it a year before. But a week later the state agency that had placed the child with my sister came and got her to return her to the mother. less than a year later the child died in another fire situation. This time the whole house burned when a couple of kids built a fire to heat the house when it was below freezing outside.
Sad
I'm sorry for your sister's loss.
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27-05-2016, 05:46 AM
RE: Warning: Rage-Provoking Stupidity
(26-05-2016 05:19 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  My sister used to foster kids. One woman arrived at her house demanding her baby back. The baby was hiding in the closet having seen momma drive up. My sister said the kid wasn't there. The kid was a 7 year old who had been left home alone for 3 days and tried to heat up a can of Campbell's soup without opening it a year before. But a week later the state agency that had placed the child with my sister came and got her to return her to the mother. less than a year later the child died in another fire situation. This time the whole house burned when a couple of kids built a fire to heat the house when it was below freezing outside.

No

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27-05-2016, 11:54 AM
RE: Warning: Rage-Provoking Stupidity
I have nothing but empathy for the children if dick wad parents like these. When I think about my daughters and the possibility that they could have been born into a family like this, it just breaks my heart. Cases like this is why I am antitheist.

After listening to the TTA podcast with Rita Swan, I looked up her organization. It looks like a really worthwhile organization to support that fights for the rights of these children. http://childrenshealthcare.org/
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27-05-2016, 03:50 PM
RE: Warning: Rage-Provoking Stupidity
(26-05-2016 04:45 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Agreed. The judge that returned that boy to his family utterly fucked up. I'd very much like to see him held accountable for his stupidity.

The law generally favors the parents having custody. And, judges hands are often tied by the law. Parents have rights to their kids and the state is very reluctant to supersede parental rights or authority to make decisions. Sometimes that means people who shold never have access to any children, including their own, will be given the benefit of the doubt and judges and lawyers and social workers find their hands are tied.

In the macro sense, this makes sense. Parents should be able raise their kids as they see fit - absent causing actual abuse - and the state isn't any better qualified to raise kids than the average parent. But, unfortunately, every now and again you get a really fucked up result. Unfortunately, it happens. I still side with the premise that parents should have rights to be be parents as they see fit (absent certain obvious limitations).

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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27-05-2016, 06:35 PM
RE: Warning: Rage-Provoking Stupidity
(27-05-2016 03:50 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(26-05-2016 04:45 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Agreed. The judge that returned that boy to his family utterly fucked up. I'd very much like to see him held accountable for his stupidity.

The law generally favors the parents having custody. And, judges hands are often tied by the law. Parents have rights to their kids and the state is very reluctant to supersede parental rights or authority to make decisions. Sometimes that means people who shold never have access to any children, including their own, will be given the benefit of the doubt and judges and lawyers and social workers find their hands are tied.

In the macro sense, this makes sense. Parents should be able raise their kids as they see fit - absent causing actual abuse - and the state isn't any better qualified to raise kids than the average parent. But, unfortunately, every now and again you get a really fucked up result. Unfortunately, it happens. I still side with the premise that parents should have rights to be be parents as they see fit (absent certain obvious limitations).

By and large I agree with this. The state should not have the right to dictate how children are raised so long as the minimum necessities for life are being provided. Sadly, that was exactly the problem in this particular case. The first time that the child was taken away was because the parents had almost killed him in exactly the same way. Unfortunately, the judge ruled that the social worker had messed up at some point and turned the boy back over to the parents. They behaved well enough for long enough that the case was closed and then they moved to another province. Records from the closed case did not follow.

I know that I don't have all the facts and that I'm playing armchair quarterback here. That said, I feel that a case this horrific merits a review of that judge's decision. Just have somebody capable who knows the system and its limitations go over it. I strongly suspect that will never happen. Lawyers protect their own.

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27-05-2016, 07:51 PM
RE: Warning: Rage-Provoking Stupidity
This is far from my area of expertise, but my mom worked in the field for over 30 years (as a social worker, not a lawyer) and I've heard stories. It varies by state but this result is not as out of whack as you may think. The law presumes a kid is better off with his parents. Even when the parents suck.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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03-06-2016, 07:41 AM
RE: Warning: Rage-Provoking Stupidity
(26-05-2016 04:30 AM)unsapien Wrote:  When I read articles like that I forget that I am against the death penalty.

We have a similar case in my neck of the woods too:

"I burned him because I felt the devil in him" the father and ex-Mountie said at the torture trial of his son.

The father is claiming that his own terrible childhood and PTSD is to blame and that he didn't know that what he was doing was wrong. I don't know what kind of testing and training you have to go through to get into the RCMP, but I'm pretty sure that "making sure an officer is able to tell right from wrong" is in there somewhere.

At least the kid in this case escaped and lived, but what will he have to deal with for the rest of his life. There are worst things you can do to a person in this world then just kill them.

I agree. I believe that if you murder your kid through standard methods or by starvation, or religious beatings whatever we lock you in prison in general population and create stories about how you raped your kids or kids in general. Even the scum of the Earth have standards. They would learn in prison the hard way that behavior like that hurts.
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