Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
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18-11-2013, 03:54 AM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2013 04:33 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
I suggest that anyone who thinks that the Roman government at the time didn't use propaganda should have a read of this and then listen to the two podcasts...

"Vespasian’s reign (69 – 79 CE) was notable for the fact that he, with his son Titus by his side, is well known to have been a great propagandist; someone very proficient at controlling popular perception. They were particularly good at promoting the public’s respect for imperial authority. Vespasian was said to have restored a blind man’s site using spittle and to have healed a cripple (do these sound familiar?) He sold the idea that he’d bought peace to the empire. He was a strong patron of the arts and letters, and commissioned many authors to write “Flavian versions” of history. (http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/the_...roved.html ,

http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/the_...a-day.html

Propaganda obviously was an important tool in the government's armoury. That makes Atwill's theory more probable.
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18-11-2013, 04:02 AM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2013 04:26 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
(14-11-2013 04:23 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  There were Christians before Titus, so... no.

Um....maybe.

As far as I'm aware the only evidence for the existence of Christians prior to Titus' expedition (66 to 70 CE) are the letters of St Paul. He probably wrote in the 50s and early 60s. He didn't know of a once living human Jesus. His Christ was a ghost.

I actually think it's very likely that Paul, too, was a Roman government agent promoting propaganda to undermine Messianic Jews. I think the government changed tack after the first Jewish War by introducing the once living Jesus character.

I suspect that Paul's mystical son of God, the ghost, was only written into the Gospels in the second century.

I can present some evidence for this if anyone is interested, but it's a bit long winded
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18-11-2013, 05:42 AM
RE: Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
(18-11-2013 04:02 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I can present some "evidence" for this if anyone is interested, but it's a bit long winded

Dodgy

And for good measure: Dodgy

Big Grin
Tongue
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18-11-2013, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2013 09:13 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
(13-11-2013 08:09 AM)I and I Wrote:  In the book called Caesars Messiah, Joseph Atwill makes a very strong case that Christianity was invented as a political tool to control and squash rebellious jews that were at that time dangerous to the Roman rule. Hatred towards jews (until the creation of the racist apartheid state) was a result of this made up religion.

Here is a video documentary made based on the book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM2KONcLKQU

Thanks for posting this documentary. I tried to buy this on Amazon but couldn't do so because I'm in Australia, so I'm really glad I got round to watching it thanks to you.

PS. I've been able to put a link to it in my book too.
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19-11-2013, 08:56 AM
RE: Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
I fell asleep to the vid last night. Big Grin

There appears to be some insurmountable obstacles; namely that it is too complicated, and that Jesus as an ultimate authority is totally un-Roman-like. Tongue

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19-11-2013, 09:25 AM
Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
(19-11-2013 08:56 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I fell asleep to the vid last night. Big Grin

There appears to be some insurmountable obstacles; namely that it is too complicated, and that Jesus as an ultimate authority is totally un-Roman-like. Tongue

I fell asleep to Beethoven, cherry candles and next to a hot model.

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19-11-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
(18-11-2013 03:54 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "Vespasian’s reign (69 – 79 CE) was notable for the fact that he, with his son Titus by his side, is well known to have been a great propagandist; someone very proficient at controlling popular perception. They were particularly good at promoting the public’s respect for imperial authority. Vespasian was said to have restored a blind man’s site using spittle and to have healed a cripple (do these sound familiar?) He sold the idea that he’d bought peace to the empire. He was a strong patron of the arts and letters, and commissioned many authors to write “Flavian versions” of history.

Magic spit. Blink


After regaining sight, I'd beat the shit out of that guy for spitting in my eyes. Dodgy Take your retroactive gratitude to manipulate & exploit some other chump, s'what I'd say.

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19-11-2013, 11:51 AM
RE: Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
Quote:So you're saying the Tacitus reference is a forgery?

Tacitus was a second century writer. While there is a hot debate about the authenticity of the Annales reference the simple fact is that no other writer, xtian, jewish, or Greco-Roman, mentions the passage directly nor is there any reference to Nero punishing xtians for the Great Fire of 64.

In fact, it is not until the 5th century work of Sulpicius Severus "Chronica" that there is even a watered-down variant of the passage in the literature and Severus does not cite Tacitus as a source. So, you tell me.

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19-11-2013, 11:56 AM
RE: Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
Quote:the letters of St Paul. He probably wrote in the 50s and early 60s.

Again....that's the story. But Justin Martyr writing in the mid-2d century to Emperor Antoninus Pius in Rome never mentions him. For that matter, Justin never mentions any of the 4 "gospels" by name, either. How is it possible that Justin has never heard of the man who supposedly brought xtianity to the gentiles a mere 90 years before?

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19-11-2013, 09:31 PM (This post was last modified: 19-11-2013 09:46 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Was Christianity invented to squash jewish rebellion?
(19-11-2013 08:56 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I fell asleep to the vid last night. Big Grin

There appears to be some insurmountable obstacles; namely that it is too complicated, and that Jesus as an ultimate authority is totally un-Roman-like. Tongue

I agree that it is complicated. It's not easy to sell the story because this story needs to be placed in the context of the first century Roman Empire, and it's very hard to give people an appreciation of the atmosphere of those times.

I spent many years learning and thinking about the history of the first century Jews and Rome. Quite independently of Atwill, it slowly dawned on me how probable it was that Christianity was created by the government. I'd actually written my book and put forth some evidence of my own for that, and then I read Atwill. I don't agree with absolutely everything he writes, but a lot of what he says does ring true.

I'm wondering why you think that Jesus is un-Roman-like? Don't forget that the authors had to make him a bit Jewish so as to appeal to fundamentalists Jews. Don't forget that the gospels, each of them, evolved over a 200 to 300 year period after they were first written.
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