Was Earmuffs banned?
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08-11-2017, 10:55 AM
RE: Was Earmuffs banned?
(08-11-2017 09:37 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  So you think that accusations of child rape are just fine anywhere except the US, and that we're being unreasonable by objecting to it? I don't believe that (I hope libel isn't an exclusively American concept), but if the rest of the world really thinks that way, I'm extremely glad to be American.
The thing about this incident is that that it pretty much is a nothing.
Earmuffs wasn't promoting child rape. He wasn't claiming to have evidence that someone was a child rapist. He was using it as an insult. He was implying that being a child rapist is an insult, so it is the opposite of promoting it.

The moderaters on this forum are overly sensitive about a few topics which become either taboo or walking on egg shells. It can get very frustrating being a normal poster because you can't win against the overly sensitive moderator. Your posts get deleted and you can't publicly discuss what you need to.


People can (and do) get pretty nasty on this forum, throw out false accusations, get personal, some people do it all the time, but because it's not related to these overly sensitive topics, they are allowed to get away with it. And perhaps because they are American and the mod is American that they seem to have some unconscious understanding of each other (that's unavoidable).

Anyway, although Muffs post wasn't funny, I don't agree that it is ban material and I don't agree that he is to be treated like a small child and demanded to apologise. It was a nothing and the outcome was needless.

But this isn't my forum and like other forums this is run by people who have some admin power and will use it when they feel appropriate. Mostly that is when I'd also think it is appropriate, but sometimes it is over the top moderation. It's just the way forums go. Nothing's perfect.
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08-11-2017, 11:03 AM
RE: Was Earmuffs banned?
(08-11-2017 10:55 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 09:37 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  So you think that accusations of child rape are just fine anywhere except the US, and that we're being unreasonable by objecting to it? I don't believe that (I hope libel isn't an exclusively American concept), but if the rest of the world really thinks that way, I'm extremely glad to be American.
The thing about this incident is that that it pretty much is a nothing.
Earmuffs wasn't promoting child rape. He wasn't claiming to have evidence that someone was a child rapist. He was using it as an insult. He was implying that being a child rapist is an insult, so it is the opposite of promoting it.

The moderaters on this forum are overly sensitive about a few topics which become either taboo or walking on egg shells. It can get very frustrating being a normal poster because you can't win against the overly sensitive moderator. Your posts get deleted and you can't publicly discuss what you need to.


People can (and do) get pretty nasty on this forum, throw out false accusations, get personal, some people do it all the time, but because it's not related to these overly sensitive topics, they are allowed to get away with it. And perhaps because they are American and the mod is American that they seem to have some unconscious understanding of each other (that's unavoidable).

Anyway, although Muffs post wasn't funny, I don't agree that it is ban material and I don't agree that he is to be treated like a small child and demanded to apologise. It was a nothing and the outcome was needless.

But this isn't my forum and like other forums this is run by people who have some admin power and will use it when they feel appropriate. Mostly that is when I'd also think it is appropriate, but sometimes it is over the top moderation. It's just the way forums go. Nothing's perfect.

Keep in mind that he wasn't banned for making the accusation (although I still maintain that such an accusation is way over the line -- it in fact constitutes the crime of libel -- no matter how it was meant). He was given a minor "slap on the wrist" punishment, refused to accept it, and asked to be banned. He was banned at his own request. He literally did "ask for it".
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08-11-2017, 11:09 AM
RE: Was Earmuffs banned?
(08-11-2017 08:39 AM)Aractus Wrote:  
(02-11-2017 06:39 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Freethinking is not allowed here. I always read earmuff's as a Kiwi. Also a snarky, intelligent guy who refused to bend to American codes of conduct.

The internet is worldwide.

Sorry. It's true.

America=Christian thought.

I'll take New Zealand any day. Thanks.

I have friends here whom I admire and respect. This thread is not directed at them.

It is directed at the direction of this piss arse wannabe atheist website.

Give it up mate. Go home.

I couldn't agree with you more on this. Whether the yanks want to admit it or not, their culture is at least partly toxic, and trying to enforce it globally is akin to proselytization.

We are toxic because we are against people falsely accusing others of raping children? Only thing toxic here is your unwarranted attack on something which has absolutely nothing to do with the situation.

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08-11-2017, 11:14 AM
RE: Was Earmuffs banned?
(08-11-2017 11:09 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 08:39 AM)Aractus Wrote:  I couldn't agree with you more on this. Whether the yanks want to admit it or not, their culture is at least partly toxic, and trying to enforce it globally is akin to proselytization.

We are toxic because we are against people falsely accusing others of raping children? Only thing toxic here is your unwarranted attack on something which has absolutely nothing to do with the situation.

Nefarious American Atheist plot seems quite plausible JDog! Tongue

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08-11-2017, 11:29 AM
RE: Was Earmuffs banned?
I'm sorry but anyone who thinks calling another member a paedo shouldn't have consequences is fucked up. If the rules changed to allow this I would leave TTA and I suspect others would too, an insult like that doesn't have to be true to have the potential for serious impact to a persons life and relegating it to the level of all other adhominems trivialises child sex abuse too. And as for suggesting that because he was using it as an insult, that makes him some kind of moral crusader against pederasty well, that's beyond the pale. We have very few rules here but to have none at all is anarchic and that doesn't work very well Imo.
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08-11-2017, 11:30 AM
RE: Was Earmuffs banned?
(08-11-2017 11:03 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Keep in mind that he wasn't banned for making the accusation (although I still maintain that such an accusation is way over the line -- it in fact constitutes the crime of libel -- no matter how it was meant). He was given a minor "slap on the wrist" punishment, refused to accept it, and asked to be banned. He was banned at his own request. He literally did "ask for it".
He was belittled by the moderators, told he must apologise publicly as if he were a small child being brought up to the front of the class begrudgingly to say something against his will that he didn't mean to say.

Public shaming isn't what I'd call a small slap. It is understandable that he reacted by demanding they ban him. At least his integrity (not being owned by someone) remains intact. He says what he says because he means it. For him to be demanded to say something he doesn't mean is belittling, he is not a child.

Now if he made a convincing argument about someone being a child rapist then that is something, but it was obvious that this was just an emotional outburst, an insult to be taken as an insult and not literally. This was a storm in a teacup and as a result, a guy with 20,000 posts has been banned needlessly.
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08-11-2017, 11:39 AM
RE: Was Earmuffs banned?
(08-11-2017 11:30 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 11:03 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Keep in mind that he wasn't banned for making the accusation (although I still maintain that such an accusation is way over the line -- it in fact constitutes the crime of libel -- no matter how it was meant). He was given a minor "slap on the wrist" punishment, refused to accept it, and asked to be banned. He was banned at his own request. He literally did "ask for it".
He was belittled by the moderators, told he must apologise publicly as if he were a small child being brought up to the front of the class begrudgingly to say something against his will that he didn't mean to say.

Public shaming isn't what I'd call a small slap. It is understandable that he reacted by demanding they ban him. At least his integrity (not being owned by someone) remains intact. He says what he says because he means it. For him to be demanded to say something he doesn't mean is belittling, he is not a child.

Now if he made a convincing argument about someone being a child rapist then that is something, but it was obvious that this was just an emotional outburst, an insult to be taken as an insult and not literally. This was a storm in a teacup and as a result, a guy with 20,000 posts has been banned needlessly.

So he means what he says and won't be belittled by saying something he doesn't mean -- except when he wants to call someone a child rapist. Then he doesn't really mean it. He should make up his mind -- or better yet, be a bit more careful about what he says.

Look, I liked muffs. He was one of my favorite posters on this forum. But he crossed a line that can't be crossed, and then refused to man up and own his mistake. Too bad for him. At this point, I have zero sympathy for him. Everyone fucks up from time to time, but when you do, you have to admit it and apologize. Refusing to apologize (or making a fake apology that just repeats the original insult in a different form) basically amounts to refusing to admit that you did something wrong. And he definitely did something wrong. Actions have consequences.
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08-11-2017, 11:41 AM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2017 11:48 AM by OakTree500.)
RE: Was Earmuffs banned?
(08-11-2017 11:30 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Now if he made a convincing argument about someone being a child rapist then that is something, but it was obvious that this was just an emotional outburst, an insult to be taken as an insult and not literally. This was a storm in a teacup and as a result, a guy with 20,000 posts has been banned needlessly.
But that's also kind of the point. You can't just have "outbursts" like this, and no he's not gone that far before, but lets face it...Muffs was often just causing trouble because of "outbursts". We only put up with him for this long because most of us saw that wasn't the meat/veg of who he was as a person.

But that only goes so far. When you start making jokes about people being child rapists....I mean...It's just not cool is it? It might have been a joke, but it sure as hell wasn't funny. For example, if this happened in a work place, he'd have been fired. If it happened in real life, to somebody that he didn't get on with, he could be sued or taken to court over it.

In this case, regardless of what went on, the mods thought "we can either ban him for being an arse, or give him the chance 'sorry, I said the wrong thing, and I apologise" . Instead he said "ban me" and here we are.

I Liked the guy, and I know there are people on here who really didn't like him at all, but I can't honestly believe there are people actually defending his position on this.

What he said was not a joke, at all, and it violated the forums rules. He was asked to basically make peace about it, (making public apologies isn't all about making a show for others, sometimes its a chance to hold up ones own hands and say you fucked up), but instead he asked to be banned, because he's stubborn as fuck.

That's why he was banned, because he's stubborn.

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08-11-2017, 11:46 AM
RE: Was Earmuffs banned?
(08-11-2017 09:06 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 08:48 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Wow 27 pages and counting on the ethics of a person asking to be banned and then getting what he asked for. It's refreshing to know that all our problems in the real world have been solved and we can now turn our attention to matters like these.

I take your point however it is important to remember that like him or loathe him Earmuffs has been here almost since the inception of this forum and was a very large part of it. Its also worth pointing out that its not often such a longstanding and established member gets a ban, I've been here 2 1/2 years and this is the first time I've seen it happen, its only natural its going to be discussed for quite some time.

I didn't realize his tenure was so longstanding. For what it's worth I thought Muffs was downright hilarious myself. I've been involved in forums of one type or another for probably 15 years. In that time I've seen numerous instances of long standing members taking issue with changes in a forum's culture or character and then sort of painting themselves into a corner with their conduct and choosing to "going out in a blaze of glory," rather than submit to something that might be seen as a surrender. I don't think this is much more than that. Suicide by cop so to speak.
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08-11-2017, 11:52 AM
RE: Was Earmuffs banned?
(08-11-2017 11:46 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 09:06 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I take your point however it is important to remember that like him or loathe him Earmuffs has been here almost since the inception of this forum and was a very large part of it. Its also worth pointing out that its not often such a longstanding and established member gets a ban, I've been here 2 1/2 years and this is the first time I've seen it happen, its only natural its going to be discussed for quite some time.

I didn't realize his tenure was so longstanding. For what it's worth I thought Muffs was downright hilarious myself. I've been involved in forums of one type or another for probably 15 years. In that time I've seen numerous instances of long standing members taking issue with changes in a forum's culture or character and then sort of painting themselves into a corner with their conduct and choosing to "going out in a blaze of glory," rather than submit to something that might be seen as a surrender. I don't think this is much more than that. Suicide by cop so to speak.

I agree with you 100% he could be incredibly funny and at times quite insightful sadly I think he got to the point where he considered himself invincible.
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