Was Hitler really a Christian
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 1 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-08-2014, 12:52 PM
RE: Was Hitler really a Christian
If you actually read his conversation with Speer it becomes clear that Hitler wanted to convert Germany to Islam, and his anti-semitism was probably based in Moslem values.

Paleoliberal • English Nationalist • Zionist • Rightist • Anti-Islam • Neoconservative • Republican • Linguistic Revivalist and Purist

Happily Divorced from the Left!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-08-2014, 12:56 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2014 05:02 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Was Hitler really a Christian
(10-08-2014 07:50 AM)TomLL Wrote:  Clearly he wasn't because of Hitler's private writings and conversations. He also murdered many Christians. There were thousands of Protestant and Catholic ministers in concentration camps.

The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.
All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, *****? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

welcome to the forum, let me help you out with that particular urban legend.


I often hear the simplistic, reductionist claim that there is a kind of equation between atheism and Nazism....for example, statements like "atheism leads to evil or such things as Nazism (epitome of evil)" There have been any number of similar claims made in various quarters: Nazism was an inevitable product of Darwin, or of Luther, or of the Versailles treaty, or of Wagner's opera, or of Nietzsche, or of Hegel. All of these break down under the obvious objection that there were plenty of atheists, darwinists, Lutherans, objectors to the Versailles treaty, Wagnerians, Nietzsche and Hegelians who did not become Nazis. These are all vacuous arguments from a historiographical perspective.

Was Adolf Hitler an atheist? Hitler cannot be called a church going christian, but neither can he be used as an example of an atheist. Hardly the product of an anti-christian childhood and upbringing, he attended mass with his devout mother and was a choirboy, which he quite enjoyed. Indeed, the majesty and pageantry of the church heavily influenced the staging in Nazi rallies and rituals.

born and raised a roman catholic, Hitler remained a nominal catholic for the rest of his life. he never officially renounced the church or his membership in it, but he was hostile to the church's impulses of caring for the weak, infirm, and mentally handicapped, who he wished to destroy. Hitler never doubted the divinity of Jesus, just his jewishness, convinced that he was actually an Aryan. The portraits of a fair haired, blue eyed Jesus that grace so many American homes would have doubtless met with his approval.

Consider the following examples rebutting the claim that he was an atheist:

1) When party secretary martin bormann closed a convent, Hitler reversed the order.
2) Hitler allowed the German army to have catholic and protestant chaplains in field. In fact the troops wore a belt buckle embossed with the inscription "god is with us".
3) In endless monologues to those around him, Hitler never once professed to be an atheist or unbeliever in the Abraham god of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. In particular, he had the greatest admiration for Islam, particularly its military tradition.
4) Survivor of over a dozen assassination plots and attempts, Hitler credited "divine providence" and "almighty god" for saving him to complete his great mission. On the eve of the soviet invasion, Hitler ended his address to his troops with "Almighty god bless our arms".
5) The first foreign policy coup of nazi germany was the "Concordat with the Vatican", allowing the church independence and catholic schools ot remain open in exchange for staying out of politics. The church also "welcomed the way" when operation barbarossa..the campaign against the godless soviet union was launched. Hitler, SS chief Heinrich Himmler, and architect of the holocaust Reinhard Heydrich, nominal catholics all, were never excommunicated by the holy sec. To this very day they remain catholics in good standing.
6) When overzealous nazi party officials removed crucifixes from classroom walls in bavaria, hitler personally reversed the order and had them rehung.

Now, some of the myths surrounding hitler's atheism can be attributed to an inaccurate and poorly translated version of Table Talk. Table Talk is a book of transcribed conversations that hitler had with those close to him. Some versions of this book that were translated from german to other languages contained fabricated statements not found in the original german manuscript.



Again, this is all irrelevant, with or without religion good people do good things, evil people will do evil things, for good people to do evil things takes religion.


DISCLAIMER: I am in NO way a hitler fan, that sick fuck deserved to be lit on fire after many days of having every bone in his body broken one at a time, but sorry, he was not an atheist.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-08-2014, 02:50 PM
RE: Was Hitler really a Christian
It doesn't make a bit of difference either way.
Germany was a CHRISTIAN NATION, and they permitted him to rise to power, and do what he did, no matter what his or anyone else's personal beliefs were.
He could never have done anything by himself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
10-08-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: Was Hitler really a Christian
Hitler was a psychopath, a failure, and a suicide.

[Image: vcrzu1.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-08-2014, 04:21 PM
RE: Was Hitler really a Christian
(10-08-2014 12:48 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  This is one of those arguments that doesnt do -anything- to prove a point. Its just mud slinging to try to upset the other side.
It does not MATTER if he was religious or not. There are bad people everywhere. He was clearly a horrible person. Period. It has nothing to do with whether god/s/ are real or not.

Apparently you didn't feel the *stinging* whiplash of the post in all its brilliance. Wake up - your beliefs were utterly annihilated in one - yes, one (1)- post. Guess there's nothing left to do but close down this useless forum. We've been wrong all this time. Gawd is great, praise Jeebus!

Facepalm

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Thinkerbelle's post
10-08-2014, 05:01 PM
RE: Was Hitler really a Christian
(10-08-2014 12:52 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  If you actually read his conversation with Speer it becomes clear that Hitler wanted to convert Germany to Islam, and his anti-semitism was probably based in Moslem values.

That's parody, right? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
10-08-2014, 06:14 PM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2014 06:17 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Was Hitler really a Christian
Hey, orignal poster? Tell you what.

Give me a definition of what it means to "really" be Christian.

Get all the people who call themselves Christians... actually just a majority of them, that would be enough for me... to agree with that definition.

As opposed to the current state, where we've got people insisting only Catholics are Christians, or only Eastern Orthadox are Christians, or only those who got fully immersed at baptism are Christians, or only Mormons are Christians, or only those who believe in the Trinity are Christians, or whether any who believe that Christ is the Savior and repent through him of their sins are Christians regardless of other dogmas, or...

... you know, a situation where there are hundreds or thousands of competing definitions, and any choice we'd make would be the equivalent of picking out of a hat.

Anyhow. Once you've got that kind of definition of what it means to be Christians, and get some actual CONSENSUS behind it? THEN we can disect whether Hitler meets it. Until then, "really" being Christian is an entirely incoherent concept.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-08-2014, 06:49 PM
RE: Was Hitler really a Christian
(10-08-2014 07:50 AM)TomLL Wrote:  Clearly he wasn't because of Hitler's private writings and conversations. He also murdered many Christians. There were thousands of Protestant and Catholic ministers in concentration camps.

The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.
All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, *****? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

Why is it relevant if Hitler was a Christian or not?
I'll tell ya why. It's because religious folks would love to prove that Hitler was an atheist just so they can continue to demonize us. As if being an atheist would necessarily lead one to mass murder. It's a childish game designed by idiots who think everything is black and white.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-08-2014, 07:08 PM
RE: Was Hitler really a Christian
Nazism is practically a religion itself...

The whole "cult of personality" and all that.

All we have to remember is, that there are some really fucked up people in this world... Sadly it seems that said fucks have a habit of getting themselves into positions of power and influence.

[img]

via GIPHY

[/img]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-08-2014, 09:56 PM
RE: Was Hitler really a Christian
Looks like we got ourselves another driveby!

[Image: Driveby.jpg]

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: