Was I wrong to do this?
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18-01-2017, 06:12 AM
RE: Was I wrong to do this?
I think you have every right to express your opinion. I mean, he was your grandfather too. I don't see a problem with the way you worded it.

I would say try to stay with what your grandfather wanted, but don't cause trouble. Family dynamics are complicated at the best of times and funerals tend to stir things up even worse.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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18-01-2017, 07:41 AM
RE: Was I wrong to do this?
(18-01-2017 06:12 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I think you have every right to express your opinion. I mean, he was your grandfather too. I don't see a problem with the way you worded it.

I would say try to stay with what your grandfather wanted, but don't cause trouble. Family dynamics are complicated at the best of times and funerals tend to stir things up even worse.

This. Also, if she wants to go with how he lived things out, instead of just talking about them (since she seems to imply he wasn't bashing people over the head with his Bible), and he's Catholic, why can't she just use the oft-attributed one to Saint Francis of Assisi? "Grandpa followed the example of Saint Francis; spread the Gospel at all times, and if necessary, use words."

Need to think of a witty signature.
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18-01-2017, 07:56 AM
RE: Was I wrong to do this?
tomasia, she asked for input. I think it's valid to point out that a dark and bloodthirsty passage as the whole core is not what the OP wants to take away from the service, so he let her know.
I saw no attempt humor there at all.
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18-01-2017, 08:52 AM
RE: Was I wrong to do this?
(18-01-2017 07:56 AM)skyking Wrote:  tomasia, she asked for input. I think it's valid to point out that a dark and bloodthirsty passage as the whole core is not what the OP wants to take away from the service, so he let her know.
I saw no attempt humor there at all.

To be fair she didn't ask for any input on the passage she choose for herself, she asked for a statement and sayings from her Grandpa that impacted them, something that stood out about him, and how they will remember him. Assuming she actually did care about her grandfather, and is grieving his loss, it's beyond inappropriate to demean her use of a passage or verse that reminded her of him, helped her cope with his loss.

The passage she chose is not about Organic Chemist, it's about her, and her grandfather, and what she meant to him.

If that was me, eulogizing my loved one, my mother, sister, wife, grandfather, and you had to nerve to criticize what I choose to remember her, to express what they meant to me, I'd be beyond furious.

It wasn't the time or place for his remarks.

At least that's how I see it, I'm sure others here will see it differently.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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18-01-2017, 08:56 AM
RE: Was I wrong to do this?
(18-01-2017 08:52 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-01-2017 07:56 AM)skyking Wrote:  tomasia, she asked for input. I think it's valid to point out that a dark and bloodthirsty passage as the whole core is not what the OP wants to take away from the service, so he let her know.
I saw no attempt humor there at all.

To be fair she didn't ask for any input on the passage she choose for herself, she asked for a statement and sayings from her Grandpa that impacted them, something that stood out about him, and how they will remember him. Assuming she actually did care about her grandfather, and is grieving his loss, it's beyond inappropriate to demean her use of a passage or verse that reminded her of him, helped her cope with his loss.

The passage she chose is not about Organic Chemist, it's about her, and her grandfather, and what she meant to him.

If that was me, eulogizing my loved one, my mother, sister, wife, grandfather, and you had to nerve to criticize what I choose to remember her, to express what they meant to me, I'd be beyond furious.

It wasn't the time or place for his remarks.

At least that's how I see it, I'm sure others here will see it differently.

So you are saying it's ok to talk about genocide at a funeral?

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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18-01-2017, 09:03 AM
RE: Was I wrong to do this?
(18-01-2017 08:56 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  So you are saying it's ok to talk about genocide at a funeral?

She didn't talk about genocide, about killing anyone, etc.. She quoted a few verses from the bible, and used them in the context of her Grandfather, and the values he lived by.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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18-01-2017, 09:13 AM
RE: Was I wrong to do this?
You could do what I did -- at my mother's funeral --- when the preacher used the graveside service to stare me in the eye and preach straight at me......

Now remember-- everybody's got their heads bowed - eyes closed.....

I mouthed "Fuck you" ..... He got the message.....

In your case - you might try making funny faces, make throwing up gestures -- or whatever else will throw her off her stride ------

because real safe bet --- she'll have HER eyes open......... They almost always do.... They want to see how impressed everyone is, with their little chat with gawd......

....

I know what you're dealing with.... Sorry ya have to go through it...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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18-01-2017, 09:30 AM
RE: Was I wrong to do this?
@ Moms, she knows I am an atheist. I have called myself that before to someone right in front of her. I agree, she probably will just blow it off and text my wife about it. I am sure I will not hear about it again.

@ Banjo, my sister is a pretty good writer and we were very close to him. My cousin Joe eulogized my grandmother two years ago (fun fact: he died one day shy of two years to the day after her) and I think she was asked by my uncles and mom. I am carrying his ashes which means I have been pallbearer for three of my grandparents.

@ MD, I really doubt that she would be open to any advice about scripture form a godless heathen like me. Like I said to Moms, I am fairly sure that she just blew it off in that pompous way that she does when it comes to religion.

@ Tom, I really don't see how it is a swipe at her. It's not my fault that the passage is way more dark and sinister than christians seem to think it is. I can't help you ignore that context is important unless it suits your fancy. I am merely pointing out that passage really isn't a kind passage and it was kind of weird to use that in referring to him. My grandparents never threatened punishment to us for not going to church, or said that we should fear god. These are two things that specifically appear in this section of Deuteronomy. I am also not sure how you got any resentment out of what I said. I said in the email that I though she was going to do a good job. My grandparents were very religious, but they weren't bible thumpers like her. They largely kept it to themselves. I have this sneaking suspicion that my sister is going to forget that.

(18-01-2017 09:03 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(18-01-2017 08:56 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  So you are saying it's ok to talk about genocide at a funeral?

She didn't talk about genocide, about killing anyone, etc.. She quoted a few verses from the bible, and used them in the context of her Grandfather, and the values he lived by.

This is called cherrypicking. Are you suggesting that changing the context that god had in his book isn't cherrypicking? I have a hard time believing that you would be OK with me quoting Jesus saying "I have not come to bring peace but a sword" in the context of warmongering. Be serious, you would (and rightly so) point out that that is not the context of the statement. You can find loving parts in the John Wayne Gacy trial transcripts if you cherrypick too.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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18-01-2017, 10:02 AM
RE: Was I wrong to do this?
You didn't do wrong my friend, perhaps also point out that this is a funeral for a catholic and not a happy clappy evangelical and maybe tone it down a bit after all the funeral is about your grandfather its not a platform for anyone to proselytize and make it about them I remember getting that advice when my dad died last year and was grateful for it. Sometimes people need to be put straight regardless of how good their intentions, could have been worse, at least you didn't suggest the reading about having a physicist speak at you funeral. Keep your chin up mate, I'm thinking of you.
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18-01-2017, 10:02 AM
RE: Was I wrong to do this?
(18-01-2017 09:30 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  This is called cherrypicking. Are you suggesting that changing the context that god had in his book isn't cherrypicking? I have a hard time believing that you would be OK with me quoting Jesus saying "I have not come to bring peace but a sword" in the context of warmongering. Be serious, you would (and rightly so) point out that that is not the context of the statement. You can find loving parts in the John Wayne Gacy trial transcripts if you cherrypick too.

You’re absolutely right it’s cherry picking, you're absolutely right its about changing the context. She cherry picked a few verses, removed from it’s context, and used and interpreted those select passages, to represent what your Grandfather meant to her. It was a part of a means of eulogizing him, coping with his loss.

But it wasn’t the time and place to make an argument about cherry picking and context, as it would be if someone did that on an internet forum. There is a difference. It’s sort of like arguing that heaven doesn’t exist, in a debate forum, and telling someone whose loved one just passed away comforted by the idea of seeing them in heaven, that it doesn’t exist.

It’s about picking your arguments wisely, and this case it wasn’t very wise, or empathetic, or considerate. In another setting in might have been entirely appropriate, but not this one dude.

It’s wasn’t about you, it wasn’t about Deuteronomy, it wasn’t about cherry picking, it wasn’t about context, but some words that served as a memory of a recently departed loved one, words that embody who he was to her, and her relationship to him.

Rather than thinking in terms of the passage, perhaps you should think in terms of the larger context, about a grieving sister, the loss of a family member she loved. And were you actions helping with the grieving process, would they strain or improve the relationship you have with her. Is it something your grandfather would have wanted you to do.

And I hope you understand that I’m not trying to attack you personally, at the end of the days it’s not my grandfather, my sister, it’s your life, your consequences, and conscious. I just strongly disagree with those that think you made the right decision.

These are my own personal views, you can take it with a grain of salt if you life.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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