Was Jesus Sexist?
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07-11-2016, 10:58 AM
Was Jesus Sexist?
My background is a former life of deeply entrenched Catholicism and one thing that was fairly unanimous was that women were NOT allowed to be priests, bishops, cardinals, deacons, or any other such thing. Those offices in the church were supposed to be the embodiment of Jesus who was male. And thats about where the reasoning ends.

One of the biggest proofs Catholics use that women are not allowed to hold these offices is that Jesus never appointed a woman. Yet at the same time Catholics boast that they are the one religion that regrades women the most being that they have a very special place for Mary in their prayer services and rituals.

In my view, a priest is a spiritual leader, a healer, and a confidant. There is nothing about your physical body that would deter you from being a spiritual leader unless you were in a coma I suppose. Nothing about the physicality of a male body seems to give them an upper hand over a female physical body in leading prayers, saying the mass, or administering sacraments. Id have to assume it has something to do with the physical since its so specific to males.

But god as the father (in Catholic theology) is genderless...so is the 3rd person the spirit (or ghost). The aspect of god that has gender is Jesus.

Another fun tidbit is that you do NOT need to be a priest or any precursor office to be elected as a cardinal. You could be a dad, a plummer, a zookeeper or a FEMALE. There are no rules against women being elected and even while some Catholics have admitted to this, they still dont want women as Cardinals (not like it would ever happen since the Catholic church hierarchy is all men).

So would Jesus be sexist then if the main reason women priests are not allowed is because he never elected them in the first place? Maybe it had something to do with the customs of the time but then there was Mary Magdalene who is the black sheep in the church...the shameful one that Catholics dont like to talk about. She gets brushed aside a lot.
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07-11-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: Was Jesus Sexist?
Was Aragorn a vegetarian?

In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer.
Albert Camus
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07-11-2016, 01:05 PM
RE: Was Jesus Sexist?
I wonder if they would prefer a venerated Catholic woman like Mother Theresa (yeah I know about the real mother Theresa) or a proven pedophile as their priest?

I wonder who Jesus would prefer? Consider

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-11-2016, 01:29 PM
RE: Was Jesus Sexist?
(07-11-2016 10:58 AM)Keen Wrote:  My background is a former life of deeply entrenched Catholicism and one thing that was fairly unanimous was that women were NOT allowed to be priests, bishops, cardinals, deacons, or any other such thing. Those offices in the church were supposed to be the embodiment of Jesus who was male. And thats about where the reasoning ends.

One of the biggest proofs Catholics use that women are not allowed to hold these offices is that Jesus never appointed a woman. Yet at the same time Catholics boast that they are the one religion that regrades women the most being that they have a very special place for Mary in their prayer services and rituals.

In my view, a priest is a spiritual leader, a healer, and a confidant. There is nothing about your physical body that would deter you from being a spiritual leader unless you were in a coma I suppose. Nothing about the physicality of a male body seems to give them an upper hand over a female physical body in leading prayers, saying the mass, or administering sacraments. Id have to assume it has something to do with the physical since its so specific to males.

But god as the father (in Catholic theology) is genderless...so is the 3rd person the spirit (or ghost). The aspect of god that has gender is Jesus.

Another fun tidbit is that you do NOT need to be a priest or any precursor office to be elected as a cardinal. You could be a dad, a plummer, a zookeeper or a FEMALE. There are no rules against women being elected and even while some Catholics have admitted to this, they still dont want women as Cardinals (not like it would ever happen since the Catholic church hierarchy is all men).

So would Jesus be sexist then if the main reason women priests are not allowed is because he never elected them in the first place? Maybe it had something to do with the customs of the time but then there was Mary Magdalene who is the black sheep in the church...the shameful one that Catholics dont like to talk about. She gets brushed aside a lot.

The early church had a woman deacon. Paul speaks of her.
Jesus was a Jew of his own day ... his views reflected his culture ...
He also (was said to have) said :
John 16:12-13
"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."

When Cat-0-licks speak of the "deposit of faith" they belie their ignorance of history and the Bible. It developed for centuries. Matrimony was not declared a sacrament until Trent, in 1099 (or whenever it was).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-11-2016, 02:55 PM
RE: Was Jesus Sexist?
(07-11-2016 01:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The early church had a woman deacon. Paul speaks of her.
Jesus was a Jew of his own day ... his views reflected his culture ...
He also (was said to have) said :
John 16:12-13
"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."

When Cat-0-licks speak of the "deposit of faith" they belie their ignorance of history and the Bible. It developed for centuries. Matrimony was not declared a sacrament until Trent, in 1099 (or whenever it was).

I have never heard of a female deacon. Although I supposed Im not too surprised.
I asked google

"Phoebe (biblical figure) Phoebe (Koine Greek Φοίβη) was a first-century Christian woman mentioned by the Apostle Paul in his Epistle to the Romans, verses 16:1-2. A notable woman in the church of Cenchreae, she was trusted by Paul to deliver his letter to the Romans."

Id be curious what a Catholic would say to skirt around this.
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07-11-2016, 03:32 PM
RE: Was Jesus Sexist?
Was Jesus sexist? Assuming for a moment that he was a real historical figure that was somewhat accurately described in the Bible...

# of disciples Jesus selected: 12
# who were men: 12
% chance of getting this particular arrangement of disciples if they were fairly chosen: approximately 1/4096
% chance that Jesus was not sexist: 1/4096

Oh, and to the idea that Jesus was biased towards men simply because the society around him would be more receptive to male preachers than female ones?

# of fucks Jesus supposedly gave about conforming to societal norms in his actions, associations, or teachings: 0
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07-11-2016, 04:51 PM
RE: Was Jesus Sexist?
Hard to tell exactly from the NT since we never know who exactly is speaking (Jesus, an apostle, the edditor?). All that we can say is that the Bible, 1st and 2nd testament, are the text book for sexism.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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07-11-2016, 05:09 PM
RE: Was Jesus Sexist?
(07-11-2016 03:32 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Was Jesus sexist? Assuming for a moment that he was a real historical figure that was somewhat accurately described in the Bible...

# of disciples Jesus selected: 12
# who were men: 12
% chance of getting this particular arrangement of disciples if they were fairly chosen: approximately 1/4096
% chance that Jesus was not sexist: 1/4096

Oh, and to the idea that Jesus was biased towards men simply because the society around him would be more receptive to male preachers than female ones?

# of fucks Jesus supposedly gave about conforming to societal norms in his actions, associations, or teachings: 0

Well, the thing is, there were other messiah figures who had 12 close companions. It was kind of a meme...but it's also not really fair to judge others by our standards. But there are those who say that women (Mary of Magdala) had some rising importance in the early church, and in order to discredit her (and women in general who were a threat to male power), she was (purposely but incorrectly) associated with the role of a prostitute, (which she was not).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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07-11-2016, 06:35 PM
RE: Was Jesus Sexist?
(07-11-2016 05:09 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 03:32 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Was Jesus sexist? Assuming for a moment that he was a real historical figure that was somewhat accurately described in the Bible...

# of disciples Jesus selected: 12
# who were men: 12
% chance of getting this particular arrangement of disciples if they were fairly chosen: approximately 1/4096
% chance that Jesus was not sexist: 1/4096

Oh, and to the idea that Jesus was biased towards men simply because the society around him would be more receptive to male preachers than female ones?

# of fucks Jesus supposedly gave about conforming to societal norms in his actions, associations, or teachings: 0

Well, the thing is, there were other messiah figures who had 12 close companions. It was kind of a meme...but it's also not really fair to judge others by our standards. But there are those who say that women (Mary of Magdala) had some rising importance in the early church, and in order to discredit her (and women in general who were a threat to male power), she was (purposely but incorrectly) associated with the role of a prostitute, (which she was not).

I won't argue with you on this as far as historical factualitifitude goes. (Yes, that's a word now.) But when we start getting away from the conventional beliefs, Christianity can mean pretty much anything. Whatever Jesus may or may not have been in the facts of history, the Jesus we have to contend with today, as atheists cohabiting a world with Christians, is the Jesus that the Bible presents.
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07-11-2016, 07:22 PM
RE: Was Jesus Sexist?
When I glanced at the thread title I thought it said "Was Jesus Sexy". My new glasses are coming in tomorrow.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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