Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
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10-11-2016, 09:06 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(09-11-2016 07:59 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(09-11-2016 12:29 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Jesus fuck this guys back? Weren't you supposed to be fucking int he general direction of off?

A Vulgarian!
Ya try to play that card after some of your own posts. Rolleyes

If you think a lying hacks criticism has any value to me you would be rather wrong. Right at home for you.

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10-11-2016, 10:14 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(10-11-2016 09:06 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(09-11-2016 07:59 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  A Vulgarian!
Ya try to play that card after some of your own posts. Rolleyes

If you think a lying hacks criticism has any value to me you would be rather wrong. Right at home for you.

That would be "hack's".
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10-11-2016, 10:17 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
Bucky, have you studied Christianity in any depth? Seems you are more into the history of Judaism.

Have you read Feuerbach?
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11-11-2016, 01:40 AM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2016 01:01 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(10-11-2016 10:17 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Bucky, have you studied Christianity in any depth? Seems you are more into the history of Judaism.

Have you read Feuerbach?

Why would you ask about studying anything, you moron, when making up anything that pops into your dot-connecting head is the standard you operate on ?
But thanks for demonstrating that you actually really don't read TTA much, except you use it only to post your own nonsense. If you did , you would know that in many instances, I have said almost identical things here that he (Feuerbach) said, although he is completely wrong about some things, and some of the people he deeply influenced I have quoted here many times.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-11-2016, 05:19 AM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2016 05:29 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(11-11-2016 01:40 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(10-11-2016 10:17 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Bucky, have you studied Christianity in any depth? Seems you are more into the history of Judaism.

Have you read Feuerbach?

Why would you ask about studying anything, you moron, when making up anything that pops into your dot-connecting head is the standard you operate on ?
But thanks for demonstrating that you actually really don't read TTA much, except you use it only to post your own nonsense. If you did , you would know that in many instances, I have said almost identical things here that he (Feuerbach) said, although he is completely wrong about some things, and some of the people he deeply influenced I have quoted here many times.

So you would accept then that the Judaic "God" is a projection of the notions of divinity of the people who worshipped him, which would tie in with these people being a warring people, such as the Assyrians or Hyksos, for instance, who worshipped Khaldi or Hayek, who was a male warrior figure.

As you plainly khow, Khaldi is the "God" of the Chaldeans who are the same people, the people who have in their mythology, the figure of Abraham and who Jospephus says invaded Egypt and later established Jerusalem.

If that is the case, then these people were the people to whom the character, Jesus, in the NT was preaching.

And, these people, as you know, were precision stone masons:
[Image: Cavustepe-large.jpg]
Cavustepe (Sardurihinilli)


Working from traditional Jewish history we have a character called Abraham coming from Ur, wherever that is, and he is a Chaldean. From traditionally accepted history we have Josephus telling us that the Jews were worshippers of Hayek, which makes them Chaldeans. We then have Jesus preaching to people in Syria who were either from Egypt or were Chaldean/Assyrian/Babylonians. They all worship a big male warrior god and this, according to Feuerbach, is because this is what these people identified as "divine" in themselves.

This is the problem I have, that being raised in Christianity we are no more encouraged to ask who the people of Syria were and what they worshiped before Christianity than Jews are encouraged to identify themselves as Chaldeans from Ur. Muslims have no interest in the history of religion at all while the Romans imposed a religion on Europe by force.

So, how does one study the history of ideas objectively when the world has been dominated by religion until...now?

It's a perfectly legitimate question for a former "Christian" to ask, "what was the prevailing religion of Syria when Jesus supposedly preached to people?" because they appear to have beliefs which are astrological and involve a messiah who walks on water, raises someone from the dead and heals people, all of which comes out of Egyptian Horus worship, which is another big male god figure.
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17-11-2016, 05:41 AM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(17-11-2016 05:19 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It's a perfectly legitimate question for a former "Christian" to ask, "what was the prevailing religion of Syria when Jesus supposedly preached to people?" because they appear to have beliefs which are astrological and involve a messiah who walks on water, raises someone from the dead and heals people, all of which comes out of Egyptian Horus worship, which is another big male god figure.

Wasn't it that Mithra dude, who had a lot of similar shit spoken of him?

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17-11-2016, 06:01 AM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
Jesus was a hobo. He gave handjobs for crack money.
True story.

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17-11-2016, 06:09 AM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(17-11-2016 05:19 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  So you would accept then that the Judaic "God" is a projection of the notions of divinity of the people who worshipped* him,

Yes. It's true of every god in every culture, genius.

*That would be "worshiped him".

Quote:which would tie in with these people being a warring people, such as the Assyrians or Hyksos, for instance, who worshipped Khaldi or Hayek, who was a male warrior figure.

Real historians know where Yahweh came from. You don't.

Quote:As you plainly khow, Khaldi is the "God" of the Chaldeans who are the same people, the people who have in their mythology, the figure of Abraham and who Jospephus says invaded Egypt and later established Jerusalem.

Dot connecting.
Josephus bought the entire, now debunked, (by archaeology) bullshit of the OT.
He had no way of knowing what really happened.

Quote:If that is the case, then these people were the people to whom the character, Jesus, in the NT was preaching.

It's not true, and this is just more made-up bullshit dot connecting

Quote:Working from traditional Jewish history we have a character called Abraham coming from Ur, wherever that is, and he is a Chaldean. From traditionally accepted history we have Josephus telling us that the Jews were worshippers of Hayek, which makes them Chaldeans. We then have Jesus preaching to people in Syria who were either from Egypt or were Chaldean/Assyrian/Babylonians. They all worship a big male warrior god and this, according to Feuerbach, is because this is what these people identified as "divine" in themselves.

All total garbage. There is no evidence for Abraham. He was mythical. Josephus had no real historical tools. There is NOT ONE Jewish scholar in the entire world that ever once discussed, provided evidence for, or wrote about the war god (Yahweh) as the identification of a concept of "divine in themselves". You're simply pulling crap out of your ass, posting it, then whining when we don't it.

Quote:So, how does one study the history of ideas objectively when the world has been dominated by religion until...now?

You've answered that for yourself. You make up bullshit.

Quote:It's a perfectly legitimate question for a former "Christian" to ask, "what was the prevailing religion of Syria when Jesus supposedly preached to people?" because they appear to have beliefs which are astrological and involve a messiah who walks on water, raises someone from the dead and heals people, all of which comes out of Egyptian Horus worship, which is another big male god figure.

Wrong again. Those concepts were not unique to them. Of course you wouldn't know that, as you never studied anything, (except maybe fiction writing).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-11-2016, 12:31 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2016 12:39 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
Bucky, that's a lot of typing to say nothing, and to make your own typo. Go find it yourself...

You haven't understood anything I said.

You agree that all gods are the "divine" in man, as Feuerbach suggests. Which I say shows that those who created a god who was war-like revered the qualities of the hunter-male, rather than the sentient human, which is reflected in the Christian notion of god being the "logos" and the central purpose of life being to "do unto others as you would have others do unto you".

You say that Josephus has been "debunked", but as far as I can make out from your past posts, you seem to be saying that the idea of a vassel nation of Jews migrating out of the Levant into Egypt has been debunked, but Josephus would not and does not describe the "Jews" in those terms. He says they were invaders who were disliked because of their barbarity.

You seem, if I am right, to want to use a present day view of what Jews are to debunk a work, the Old Testament, which is plainly a typological work of mixed fiction and handed down national legend.

I have never said Abraham was a real character and, in fact, I have said that I consider him to have been fictional. Having said that, I think it is nonsense to suggest that the accepted view of a whole people, that they originate from a particular place, which comes from an oral tradition is not evidence of that fact simply because we don't have written works to document that. Josephus wrote this 2000 years ago and it was the considered view of his day and of everyone up until now, that this is correct.

What is more likely to be incorrect is the perception of who the Jews were.

As you are probably aware, Philo considred that the OT was a typological/allegorical work:
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patro...pter3.html
"ALLEGORY AND TYPOLOGY

The holy Scriptures use at least three kinds of allegory: figurative allegory, narrative allegory and typological allegory. St. Paul’s Ode to Charity (Corinthians 13) is figurative allegory. So is Wisdom, as she is presented in Proverbs 8. In some parables - those for instance of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10: 30-35) and the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) - the allegory is narrative. The most characteristic biblical form is the typological allegory, a New Testament exegetic method which treats events and figures of the Old Testament as combining historical reality with prophetic meaning in terms of the Gospels and the Christian Dispensation.

Modern distinction between allegory and typology stems from Antiochene criticism of Alexandrian allegory. For example, Jean Dani�lou states, "It would be an entire abuse of language to include moral allegory with typology under the one heading of spiritual sense, as opposed to the literal sense: typology is a legitimate extension of literal sense, while moral allegory is something entirely alien: the former is in truth exegesis, the latter is not. Origen was the first to bring together these two interpretations in a forceful synthesis. But they are in reality two distinct approaches, artificially put side by side."

Some scholars distinguish "allegory," defined as a method in which earthly realities are interpreted symbolically to refer to heavenly realities, from "typology," in which historical reality is interpreted as foreshadowing another, especially the person and work of Christ.

The word "type," tupoi in Greek has its basic meaning, ‘something struck out; a print, impression of a seal.’ The seal is the New Testament event, which has struck out a prophetic impression of itself in the pages of the Old Testament.

J.N.D. Kelly gives a base for the distinction between allegory and typology, saying,

... the word (allegory) led to confusion even in the patristic age, and its accepted meaning to day denotes a somewhat different type of exegesis from typology. Since the fathers employed both typology and allegory (in its modern sense), the distinction between the two methods needs to be clearly brought out...

In allegorical exegesis the sacred text is treated as a mere symbol, or allegory, of spiritual truths. The literal, historical sense, if it is regarded at all, plays a relatively minor role, and the aim of the exegete is to elicit the moral, theological or mystical meaning which each passage, indeed each verse and even each word, is presumed to contain...

Typological exegesis works along very different lines. Essentially it is a technique for bringing out the correspondence between the two Testaments: a technique where the Old reflects the New, i.e. prefigures and anticipates the events and personages of the New. The typologist takes history seriously; it is the scene of the progressive unfolding of God’s consistent redemptive purpose..."

I am not sure if you have read The Wallace by Blind Harry or the Life of Robert the Bruce but they provide a useful illustration.

These works are about two people who lived at completely different times and had no relation to each other. However, The Wallace contains stories about William Wallace which are borrowed wholesale from the story of Robert the Bruce. The reason for this is that the versions of their life stories that we have were written by the same man, a cleric called John Ramsay, and they were written only four years apart. The purpose of both was to create national heroes who were divinely inspired. The Wallace depicts William Wallace as a descendant of the royal line and a savior of the Scottish people but The Wallace puts his story over a period of about 45 years when, in fact, his activities as a rebel spanned only about 10 or so years.

That is what typo logical writing is about. It's not intended to be historically accurate. Those works were written in the 1400's. I see no reason why this same style of writing was any different 1400 years earlier. The preoccupation with historical accuracy has no place in examining works like the NT and OT. They are not about history any more than the Illiad is about history.

You and I are at cross purposes if you think I am saying that the OT Abraham is a real character or that the depiction of the Hebrews in the OT is an accurate reflection of a true history of modern Jews.

My view is simply that the NT is a Roman inspired work which appeals to the people of the Levant who had a religion based on a warlike god and that the purpose of the NT was to indoctrinate these people with a Hellenistic morality which was peaceful, for political reasons. Whether the central character in it, Jesus, was a wandering carpenter or a a Syrian/Babylonian prince is largely irrelevant because in typological writing, it doesn't matter any more than it matters that much or most of The Wallace is invented. These works are only polemic vehicles.
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17-11-2016, 12:44 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
Jesus was an Essene. Drinking Beverage

#sigh
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