Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
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22-10-2016, 08:04 AM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
Popcorn


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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22-10-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
You have to answer the first part of that question first, "Was Jesus?"
Then you can worry about what he may or may not have been. Wink

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22-10-2016, 09:24 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
Over a dozen centuries before any such organizations existed?

Next you'll be telling us that Jesus spent ages twelve through thirty in Atlantis learning powers from the merbigfoots that live down there.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

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22-10-2016, 09:32 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(22-10-2016 05:33 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  So, I guess the consensus is that he was a mason and an illuminati. Done!

You capitalized Mason, but now you want to deny that's what you meant.

You really are a moron and a dishonest asshole. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-10-2016, 09:32 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
How in the actual fuck was Jesus a member of a Bavarian Enlightenment-era secret society?

Oh, right, DelatBravo thread. So, we're just making shit up then?

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22-10-2016, 10:36 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(21-10-2016 10:22 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  There's a view of historical analysis that the way things are now is pretty much the way they have always been subject to slow modification and incremental change.

You demonstrated to me in another thread your lack of knowledge of the history of ancient Rome. When I was asked about Epicureanism and I asked you for specifics regarding authors, your response was gobbledeegook about Iulius Caesar. His rise to power had nothing to do with Epicureanism.

As a result, it is my belief that you should avoid topics regarding history. Especially Roman history.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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23-10-2016, 10:20 AM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(22-10-2016 09:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-10-2016 05:33 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  So, I guess the consensus is that he was a mason and an illuminati. Done!

You capitalized Mason, but now you want to deny that's what you meant.

You really are a moron and a dishonest asshole. Drinking Beverage

It was a joke, you humourless fart.
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23-10-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(22-10-2016 10:36 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(21-10-2016 10:22 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  There's a view of historical analysis that the way things are now is pretty much the way they have always been subject to slow modification and incremental change.

You demonstrated to me in another thread your lack of knowledge of the history of ancient Rome. When I was asked about Epicureanism and I asked you for specifics regarding authors, your response was gobbledeegook about Iulius Caesar. His rise to power had nothing to do with Epicureanism.

As a result, it is my belief that you should avoid topics regarding history. Especially Roman history.


Did I? You knew nothing about Epicureanism in the late Roman Empire so I will give you some information about it:

The Intellectual Development and Spread of Epicureanism

While it was the fate of most Greek philosophical schools to degenerate into intellectually-dead authoritarian cults or to fall into skeptical or quasi-religious metaphysical speculation, Epicurus had provided his school with sound intellectual foundations and an organizational infrastructure (which Epicurus endowed in his Last Will) that could withstand the political instability of the Hellenistic era. One of Epicurus's students, Colotes, wrote a famous tract explaining that it was impossible to live according to the teachings of other philosophers, which proved to be a very effective debating manual for use against the older philosophical schools. Epicurean teachers established themselves in such important centers as Antioch and Alexandria, and Epicurean followers began appearing all over the Greek-speaking world.

Two great philosophical rivals emerged in opposition to Epicureans, namely the Stoics and the Skeptics. The debates among these Hellenistic schools (especially between the Epicureans and the Stoics) spurred Epicureans to develop some of their doctrines in much greater detail, notably their epistemology and some of their ethical theories, especially their theories concerning friendship and virtue. There were also occasional revivals of Platonism (the Lyceum seems to have become absorbed in the natural sciences and went into eclipse). Some pluralism started to creep into Epicurean doctrines (notably over the nature of friendship), but for the most part Epicurean beliefs remained amazingly consistent under the pressure of philosophical disputations, while Stoicism and particularly Platonism seem to have undergone steady changes in their doctrines.

With the emergence of Rome as the leading power in the western Mediterranean after the defeat of Carthage in the second Punic War (201 B.C.), Romans began to take a greater interest in Greek affairs and ultimately in Greek culture. In 155 B.C. Athens sent a delegation of its leading philosophers (excluding the Epicureans, who refused on principle to participate in public affairs) as ambassadors to Rome, where their teachings caused a sensation among the educated and a conservative backlash against all Greek philosophers led by Marcus Porcius Cato. Two representatives of the Garden, Alceus and Philiscus, came to Rome the next year, but their ethical teachings offended the conservative Romans and resulted in their expulsion from Rome.

Epicureanism, however, eventually found champions in Rome, notably Amafinius and Rabirius, who wrote popular works explaining Epicurean theories. These works “took all Italy by storm” according to one source, and prepared the way for the permanent establishment of Epicurean teachers under the patronage of sympathetic Roman aristocrats in Italy during the 1rst century B.C.
Of foremost importance was the circle that grew up in Naples around the aristocratic Calpurnius Piso family in association with the wealthy banker and book publisher Titus Pomponius Atticus. The Epicurean philosophers Siro and Philodemus were the leading teachers of this group, and the Neapolitan group became particularly well-known for the stellar poets associated with it: Lucretius, Horace, and Virgil among others. Philodemus seems to have been responsible for modifying Epicurean doctrines in favor of using poetry as a vehicle for expression of philosophical ideas, and some poems of his have survived. But it was the work of his students, above all Lucretius, that has immortalized the artistic achievements of this group.

[Caesar]
Caesar
Unfortunately, the very success of this group made it a target for the political opponents of the Pisos, particularly in view of the fact that the wife of Gaius Julius Caesar came from the Piso family. Foremost among these was Marcus Tullius Cicero, who kept up close contacts with Atticus for many years and had privileged access to the literature being produced by the Neapolitan Epicureans. Cicero made a scurrilous speech in the Senate against one of the Pisos, where among other things he made numerous invidious references against his Epicurean beliefs. When Cicero was forced into retirement, he began writing anti-Epicurean tracts in the form of monologues by representatives of various philosophical schools. Ironically, it is some of his writings that are our best source for certain Epicurean arguments, as Cicero copied the Epicurean monologues (with some rearrangement and condensation of the material) directly from the works of Philodemus and other Epicureans of the Neapolitan group.

Cicero's invective, coupled with the subsequent assasination of Julius Caesar and loss of status by the Pisos, was a serious setback for Epicureanism's acceptability among the leading groups in Rome. The eruption of Mt. Vesuvius in 79 A.D. buried the villa of the Pisos in Herculaneum, and along with it the library of the patron of the Neapolitan group. In spite of these problems, Epicureanism continued to flourish all over the new Roman Empire, especially in the Greek-speaking areas and in France and Spain. Over the course of the Empire's existence, an occasional anti-Epicurean philosopher such as the Skeptic Sextus Empiricus or the Platonist Plutarch would write at length against Epicureanism, and Epicureans such as the satirist Lucian would subtly advance Epicurean ideas in their works. But for the most part, Epicureanism's hedonism and anarchistic tendencies had caused it to fall into disfavor among the elite (with the notable exception of the early 2nd century A.D. Empress Plotina), with Epicureanism being more active in communities far removed from Rome. Epicureans were particularly prominent in western Turkey during the middle of the Imperial period, notably in the city of Amastris on the Hellespont and in Oenoanda in southwest Turkey. In the latter location in the early 3rd century A.D., a civic official named Flavius Diogenes constructed a wall inscribed with numerous Epicurean writings.

The fate of Epicureanism in the ancient world was ultimately bound up with the religious reaction against Greek philosophy (which will be considered below), but in its first five hundred years after the death of Epicurus it had successfully acquitted itself as one of the leading and best organized of the Greek philosophical schools, providing an vibrant subculture to those who sought something better than the laughable myths and superstitious dread so characteristic of the dominant culture of the Hellenistic kingdoms and the Roman Empire."

So, let us consider your comments. You knew nothing about Epicureanism in the late Roman Republic although it "took Rome by storm". But I don't know anything about Roman history. Is that right? hmmm....

Interesting that you could study Roman history for 30 years and know jack shit about it.
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23-10-2016, 10:36 AM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(23-10-2016 10:20 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It was a joke, you humourless fart.

As, indeed, are each and every one of your comments here.

Tongue

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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23-10-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
"...two incompatible visions of the universe, of nature and human nature — confront each other. One is the Epicurean, the other is the Christian, and between them the differences go all the way down.

Hopeful consensus-builders may not see that the two are distinct and antagonistic. Even some Christians and Epicureans may not be clear about it. For during the centuries-long contention between the two cosmologies, a large group on the Christian side has incorporated Epicureanism into itself and has mutated — though still calling itself Christian — into its own enemy. Such must occur of necessity: Since Grace builds on Nature, a Christian who adopts a view of Nature completely at odds with Christian Revelation thereby blinds himself to some of that Revelation. This impaired Christianity is, to be blunt, Liberal Christianity. With one eye looking toward Epicurus and one eye looking toward Jesus, it stumbles about, unable to see where it is going or where it has come from.

Where, in fact, have we come from? And how does the struggle between Epicureanism and Christianity stand today? The story of how these two came to divide between them the contemporary moral debate is fascinating. The sketch below describes, first, Epicureanism and its antithetical relation to Christianity; then how, historically, Epicureanism came to form the modern outlook and even to influence Christianity itself; and finally, the contours of the moral debate between the Christian and the Epicurean today." By Benjamin D. Wiker
Benjamin D. Wiker is a Tutor at Thomas Aquinas College in Santa Paula, California.

So, there it is then.
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