Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
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23-10-2016, 02:22 PM (This post was last modified: 23-10-2016 02:33 PM by dancefortwo.)
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(22-10-2016 04:15 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(21-10-2016 10:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  The Illuminati are a myth and Freemasonry is a product of the Middle Ages. Facepalm

You come up with the most idiotic shit. Popcorn

BTW, my post uses the word "mason". Masons are skilled craftsmen. My great grandfather was a mason because he made stone monuments. He wasn't a member of the Freemasons. You conflate the two.

Pfffffft. You don't have to be a mason to be a Mason. My grandfather was a member of the Mason's. He was a dentist. He joined the masons to smoke cigars and tell dirty jokes without any women around. Rolleyes

Edit: My other grandfather on my mother's side was also a member of the Freemason's. He was a hard drinking railroad engineer. Both were atheists... even though the Mason's don't allow atheists. The Mason's paid for both my grandfather's funerals.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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23-10-2016, 02:51 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(23-10-2016 10:34 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(22-10-2016 10:36 PM)Banjo Wrote:  You demonstrated to me in another thread your lack of knowledge of the history of ancient Rome. When I was asked about Epicureanism and I asked you for specifics regarding authors, your response was gobbledeegook about Iulius Caesar. His rise to power had nothing to do with Epicureanism.

As a result, it is my belief that you should avoid topics regarding history. Especially Roman history.


Did I? You knew nothing about Epicureanism in the late Roman Empire so I will give you some information about it:

The Intellectual Development and Spread of Epicureanism

While it was the fate of most Greek philosophical schools to degenerate into intellectually-dead authoritarian cults or to fall into skeptical or quasi-religious metaphysical speculation, Epicurus had provided his school with sound intellectual foundations and an organizational infrastructure (which Epicurus endowed in his Last Will) that could withstand the political instability of the Hellenistic era. One of Epicurus's students, Colotes, wrote a famous tract explaining that it was impossible to live according to the teachings of other philosophers, which proved to be a very effective debating manual for use against the older philosophical schools. Epicurean teachers established themselves in such important centers as Antioch and Alexandria, and Epicurean followers began appearing all over the Greek-speaking world.

Two great philosophical rivals emerged in opposition to Epicureans, namely the Stoics and the Skeptics. The debates among these Hellenistic schools (especially between the Epicureans and the Stoics) spurred Epicureans to develop some of their doctrines in much greater detail, notably their epistemology and some of their ethical theories, especially their theories concerning friendship and virtue. There were also occasional revivals of Platonism (the Lyceum seems to have become absorbed in the natural sciences and went into eclipse). Some pluralism started to creep into Epicurean doctrines (notably over the nature of friendship), but for the most part Epicurean beliefs remained amazingly consistent under the pressure of philosophical disputations, while Stoicism and particularly Platonism seem to have undergone steady changes in their doctrines.

With the emergence of Rome as the leading power in the western Mediterranean after the defeat of Carthage in the second Punic War (201 B.C.), Romans began to take a greater interest in Greek affairs and ultimately in Greek culture. In 155 B.C. Athens sent a delegation of its leading philosophers (excluding the Epicureans, who refused on principle to participate in public affairs) as ambassadors to Rome, where their teachings caused a sensation among the educated and a conservative backlash against all Greek philosophers led by Marcus Porcius Cato. Two representatives of the Garden, Alceus and Philiscus, came to Rome the next year, but their ethical teachings offended the conservative Romans and resulted in their expulsion from Rome.

Epicureanism, however, eventually found champions in Rome, notably Amafinius and Rabirius, who wrote popular works explaining Epicurean theories. These works “took all Italy by storm” according to one source, and prepared the way for the permanent establishment of Epicurean teachers under the patronage of sympathetic Roman aristocrats in Italy during the 1rst century B.C.
Of foremost importance was the circle that grew up in Naples around the aristocratic Calpurnius Piso family in association with the wealthy banker and book publisher Titus Pomponius Atticus. The Epicurean philosophers Siro and Philodemus were the leading teachers of this group, and the Neapolitan group became particularly well-known for the stellar poets associated with it: Lucretius, Horace, and Virgil among others. Philodemus seems to have been responsible for modifying Epicurean doctrines in favor of using poetry as a vehicle for expression of philosophical ideas, and some poems of his have survived. But it was the work of his students, above all Lucretius, that has immortalized the artistic achievements of this group.

[Caesar]
Caesar
Unfortunately, the very success of this group made it a target for the political opponents of the Pisos, particularly in view of the fact that the wife of Gaius Julius Caesar came from the Piso family. Foremost among these was Marcus Tullius Cicero, who kept up close contacts with Atticus for many years and had privileged access to the literature being produced by the Neapolitan Epicureans. Cicero made a scurrilous speech in the Senate against one of the Pisos, where among other things he made numerous invidious references against his Epicurean beliefs. When Cicero was forced into retirement, he began writing anti-Epicurean tracts in the form of monologues by representatives of various philosophical schools. Ironically, it is some of his writings that are our best source for certain Epicurean arguments, as Cicero copied the Epicurean monologues (with some rearrangement and condensation of the material) directly from the works of Philodemus and other Epicureans of the Neapolitan group.

Cicero's invective, coupled with the subsequent assasination of Julius Caesar and loss of status by the Pisos, was a serious setback for Epicureanism's acceptability among the leading groups in Rome. The eruption of Mt. Vesuvius in 79 A.D. buried the villa of the Pisos in Herculaneum, and along with it the library of the patron of the Neapolitan group. In spite of these problems, Epicureanism continued to flourish all over the new Roman Empire, especially in the Greek-speaking areas and in France and Spain. Over the course of the Empire's existence, an occasional anti-Epicurean philosopher such as the Skeptic Sextus Empiricus or the Platonist Plutarch would write at length against Epicureanism, and Epicureans such as the satirist Lucian would subtly advance Epicurean ideas in their works. But for the most part, Epicureanism's hedonism and anarchistic tendencies had caused it to fall into disfavor among the elite (with the notable exception of the early 2nd century A.D. Empress Plotina), with Epicureanism being more active in communities far removed from Rome. Epicureans were particularly prominent in western Turkey during the middle of the Imperial period, notably in the city of Amastris on the Hellespont and in Oenoanda in southwest Turkey. In the latter location in the early 3rd century A.D., a civic official named Flavius Diogenes constructed a wall inscribed with numerous Epicurean writings.

The fate of Epicureanism in the ancient world was ultimately bound up with the religious reaction against Greek philosophy (which will be considered below), but in its first five hundred years after the death of Epicurus it had successfully acquitted itself as one of the leading and best organized of the Greek philosophical schools, providing an vibrant subculture to those who sought something better than the laughable myths and superstitious dread so characteristic of the dominant culture of the Hellenistic kingdoms and the Roman Empire."

So, let us consider your comments. You knew nothing about Epicureanism in the late Roman Republic although it "took Rome by storm". But I don't know anything about Roman history. Is that right? hmmm....

Interesting that you could study Roman history for 30 years and know jack shit about it.



Deary me. You copy and paste some basic Roman information from the internet.

First it was The Late Republic, now it's The Late Roman Empire. Both events separated by over 1000 years. The Roman empire fell 29 May 1453.

Cicero was pro Republic. He was also a believer in the gods. As is demonstrated in the dialogues he left us. Which I alluded to in my mentioning his copies of Plato.

You also fail to note the importance of Stoicism. A belief I feel was far stronger within the patrician class of Rome. Especially before xianity.

Stop copy and pasting things you do not understand. And stop trying to wriggle out of your ignorance by saying "It was a joke".

By the way. I read all of Cicero's works. I also told you to read Seneca for a reason. Do you know why?

Don't copy and paste. Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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23-10-2016, 05:15 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(23-10-2016 10:51 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I come here to have a laugh and I get all these pompous windbags who can't see a "wheeze" when they see it...

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... and I'm not even a real doctor.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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25-10-2016, 03:11 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
and you arent funny either.
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25-10-2016, 03:13 PM (This post was last modified: 25-10-2016 03:17 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(23-10-2016 02:51 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(23-10-2016 10:34 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Did I? You knew nothing about Epicureanism in the late Roman Empire so I will give you some information about it:

The Intellectual Development and Spread of Epicureanism

While it was the fate of most Greek philosophical schools to degenerate into intellectually-dead authoritarian cults or to fall into skeptical or quasi-religious metaphysical speculation, Epicurus had provided his school with sound intellectual foundations and an organizational infrastructure (which Epicurus endowed in his Last Will) that could withstand the political instability of the Hellenistic era. One of Epicurus's students, Colotes, wrote a famous tract explaining that it was impossible to live according to the teachings of other philosophers, which proved to be a very effective debating manual for use against the older philosophical schools. Epicurean teachers established themselves in such important centers as Antioch and Alexandria, and Epicurean followers began appearing all over the Greek-speaking world.

Two great philosophical rivals emerged in opposition to Epicureans, namely the Stoics and the Skeptics. The debates among these Hellenistic schools (especially between the Epicureans and the Stoics) spurred Epicureans to develop some of their doctrines in much greater detail, notably their epistemology and some of their ethical theories, especially their theories concerning friendship and virtue. There were also occasional revivals of Platonism (the Lyceum seems to have become absorbed in the natural sciences and went into eclipse). Some pluralism started to creep into Epicurean doctrines (notably over the nature of friendship), but for the most part Epicurean beliefs remained amazingly consistent under the pressure of philosophical disputations, while Stoicism and particularly Platonism seem to have undergone steady changes in their doctrines.

With the emergence of Rome as the leading power in the western Mediterranean after the defeat of Carthage in the second Punic War (201 B.C.), Romans began to take a greater interest in Greek affairs and ultimately in Greek culture. In 155 B.C. Athens sent a delegation of its leading philosophers (excluding the Epicureans, who refused on principle to participate in public affairs) as ambassadors to Rome, where their teachings caused a sensation among the educated and a conservative backlash against all Greek philosophers led by Marcus Porcius Cato. Two representatives of the Garden, Alceus and Philiscus, came to Rome the next year, but their ethical teachings offended the conservative Romans and resulted in their expulsion from Rome.

Epicureanism, however, eventually found champions in Rome, notably Amafinius and Rabirius, who wrote popular works explaining Epicurean theories. These works “took all Italy by storm” according to one source, and prepared the way for the permanent establishment of Epicurean teachers under the patronage of sympathetic Roman aristocrats in Italy during the 1rst century B.C.
Of foremost importance was the circle that grew up in Naples around the aristocratic Calpurnius Piso family in association with the wealthy banker and book publisher Titus Pomponius Atticus. The Epicurean philosophers Siro and Philodemus were the leading teachers of this group, and the Neapolitan group became particularly well-known for the stellar poets associated with it: Lucretius, Horace, and Virgil among others. Philodemus seems to have been responsible for modifying Epicurean doctrines in favor of using poetry as a vehicle for expression of philosophical ideas, and some poems of his have survived. But it was the work of his students, above all Lucretius, that has immortalized the artistic achievements of this group.

[Caesar]
Caesar
Unfortunately, the very success of this group made it a target for the political opponents of the Pisos, particularly in view of the fact that the wife of Gaius Julius Caesar came from the Piso family. Foremost among these was Marcus Tullius Cicero, who kept up close contacts with Atticus for many years and had privileged access to the literature being produced by the Neapolitan Epicureans. Cicero made a scurrilous speech in the Senate against one of the Pisos, where among other things he made numerous invidious references against his Epicurean beliefs. When Cicero was forced into retirement, he began writing anti-Epicurean tracts in the form of monologues by representatives of various philosophical schools. Ironically, it is some of his writings that are our best source for certain Epicurean arguments, as Cicero copied the Epicurean monologues (with some rearrangement and condensation of the material) directly from the works of Philodemus and other Epicureans of the Neapolitan group.

Cicero's invective, coupled with the subsequent assasination of Julius Caesar and loss of status by the Pisos, was a serious setback for Epicureanism's acceptability among the leading groups in Rome. The eruption of Mt. Vesuvius in 79 A.D. buried the villa of the Pisos in Herculaneum, and along with it the library of the patron of the Neapolitan group. In spite of these problems, Epicureanism continued to flourish all over the new Roman Empire, especially in the Greek-speaking areas and in France and Spain. Over the course of the Empire's existence, an occasional anti-Epicurean philosopher such as the Skeptic Sextus Empiricus or the Platonist Plutarch would write at length against Epicureanism, and Epicureans such as the satirist Lucian would subtly advance Epicurean ideas in their works. But for the most part, Epicureanism's hedonism and anarchistic tendencies had caused it to fall into disfavor among the elite (with the notable exception of the early 2nd century A.D. Empress Plotina), with Epicureanism being more active in communities far removed from Rome. Epicureans were particularly prominent in western Turkey during the middle of the Imperial period, notably in the city of Amastris on the Hellespont and in Oenoanda in southwest Turkey. In the latter location in the early 3rd century A.D., a civic official named Flavius Diogenes constructed a wall inscribed with numerous Epicurean writings.

The fate of Epicureanism in the ancient world was ultimately bound up with the religious reaction against Greek philosophy (which will be considered below), but in its first five hundred years after the death of Epicurus it had successfully acquitted itself as one of the leading and best organized of the Greek philosophical schools, providing an vibrant subculture to those who sought something better than the laughable myths and superstitious dread so characteristic of the dominant culture of the Hellenistic kingdoms and the Roman Empire."

So, let us consider your comments. You knew nothing about Epicureanism in the late Roman Republic although it "took Rome by storm". But I don't know anything about Roman history. Is that right? hmmm....

Interesting that you could study Roman history for 30 years and know jack shit about it.



Deary me. You copy and paste some basic Roman information from the internet.

First it was The Late Republic, now it's The Late Roman Empire. Both events separated by over 1000 years. The Roman empire fell 29 May 1453.

Cicero was pro Republic. He was also a believer in the gods. As is demonstrated in the dialogues he left us. Which I alluded to in my mentioning his copies of Plato.

You also fail to note the importance of Stoicism. A belief I feel was far stronger within the patrician class of Rome. Especially before xianity.

Stop copy and pasting things you do not understand. And stop trying to wriggle out of your ignorance by saying "It was a joke".

By the way. I read all of Cicero's works. I also told you to read Seneca for a reason. Do you know why?

Don't copy and paste. Wink


I was have been posting about the late Republic. If I typed Empire, that was a mistake so I apologize for the confusion. My interest is in the philosophical ideas current before Julius Caesar and whether Epicureanism continued to hold sway during the Claudian period and whether it had any influence on thinking in Alexandria.

I am not sure Stoicism is evidence in the New Testament.
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25-10-2016, 03:16 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(23-10-2016 10:56 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Oh dearie me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOMqqI-kzHY

Chas, you are such a bloated windbag, and BB, you need to stop taking yourself so seriously and get laid once in a while.

You are just a troll. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-10-2016, 03:20 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(25-10-2016 03:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-10-2016 10:56 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Oh dearie me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOMqqI-kzHY

Chas, you are such a bloated windbag, and BB, you need to stop taking yourself so seriously and get laid once in a while.

You are just a troll. Drinking Beverage

Idiot.
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25-10-2016, 03:26 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
You all take yourselves far too seriously.
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25-10-2016, 04:43 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(25-10-2016 03:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(23-10-2016 02:51 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Deary me. You copy and paste some basic Roman information from the internet.

First it was The Late Republic, now it's The Late Roman Empire. Both events separated by over 1000 years. The Roman empire fell 29 May 1453.

Cicero was pro Republic. He was also a believer in the gods. As is demonstrated in the dialogues he left us. Which I alluded to in my mentioning his copies of Plato.

You also fail to note the importance of Stoicism. A belief I feel was far stronger within the patrician class of Rome. Especially before xianity.

Stop copy and pasting things you do not understand. And stop trying to wriggle out of your ignorance by saying "It was a joke".

By the way. I read all of Cicero's works. I also told you to read Seneca for a reason. Do you know why?

Don't copy and paste. Wink


I was have been posting about the late Republic. If I typed Empire, that was a mistake so I apologize for the confusion. My interest is in the philosophical ideas current before Julius Caesar and whether Epicureanism continued to hold sway during the Claudian period and whether it had any influence on thinking in Alexandria.

I am not sure Stoicism is evidence in the New Testament.

No worries mate. Remember, often my responses are driven by mediation. So please take them with a grain of salt.

No offence is meant. In fact I am enjoying the interest you are taking in the history of Rome. Good for you. Thumbsup

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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25-10-2016, 04:48 PM
RE: Was Jesus a Mason, an Illuminati?
(25-10-2016 03:26 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  You all take yourselves far too seriously.

Was Muhammad a member of the Rotary Club, a Kiwanis?

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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Alouette, je te plumerai.
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