Was Jesus illiterate?
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14-10-2011, 05:01 PM (This post was last modified: 14-10-2011 07:29 PM by Buddy Christ.)
Was Jesus illiterate?
I suppose I'll use my last few days as a free man to contribute to the forum.

Consider the facts.

-Jesus devoted his adult life to traveling town to town and preaching the word of God, yet never bothered to author a single document. If you're a godly being and your goal is to spread the word of God, you would think you would recognize the limitations of relying on verbal teachings. Words fade with memory after a few hours and the context often becomes obscured. Written text lasts for centuries and can travel the world faster than you ever could.

-The apostles were described as "uneducated and ignorant men" in Acts 4:13. People tend to surround themselves with like-minded people. No one wants to hang out with dumbasses or feel stupid by associating with a superior mind.

-The Bible tells of how young Jesus used to hang out in synagogues being taught the scripture by the priests and elders, and Jesus was constantly trying to fulfill prophecies that didn't exists, and misquoting the ones that did from the OT. So it seems logical to assume that Jesus never read the texts. He also constantly mentioned Commandments that weren't part of the 10.

-He was the son of a carpenter, in a time when illiteracy was commonplace.



Rebuttals

The responses I'm seeing from a quick google search are:


-In John in says "Jesus knelt and drew in the sand"

This proves nothing to me. A 2 year old can draw in the sand. Maybe Jesus was bored. And since no one bothered to read or record what was written in the sand (guess it wasn't important enough), we're left with assumptions.


-It says on numerous occasions that the scholars were "astonished and impressed with Jesus' understanding of the scripture" and that he was constantly "questioning the teachers in temples."

"Knowledge" in the religious sense is not actually knowledge. William Lane Craig and Ted Haggard are geniuses in the religious world. With their ability to quote scripture (whether it's actually scripture or not) and "question" learned scholars like Hitchens and Harris, they appear to be intellectually competent, rather than the professional charlatan that they are.


Yup, I still write every post like I was trying to complete the length requirement of a college thesis paper. Don't make me double space this beast.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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14-10-2011, 05:57 PM
RE: Was Jesus illiterate?
(14-10-2011 05:01 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  I suppose I'll use my last few days as a free man to contribute to the forum.

Great! Let us know if there's anything we can do to help you keep your freedom.

(14-10-2011 05:01 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Consider the facts.

-Jesus devoted his adult life to traveling town to town and preaching the word of God, yet never bothered to author a single document.

Plausible deniability is an alternative to the illiteracy argument.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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14-10-2011, 08:13 PM
RE: Was Jesus illiterate?
Hey Buddy Christ. I have read your stuff for a long time but I'm relatively new to the forum. I have always appreciated your stuff. It's nice to finally get to say.... hey.

On topic, I guess we are assuming that the Christ of the bible actually existed, and it seems he was illiterate. I rather think he was a genius but never existed. That's how I look at it anyway.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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14-10-2011, 08:44 PM
RE: Was Jesus illiterate?
Of course I am not illiterate. The fact I am responding now proves that, defacto or not. Anyways I never had to read in my life as the truth was instilled in me. On earth you could say it was encoded in my DNA at birth so to speak. I'm sure you'll all understand.
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14-10-2011, 09:03 PM
RE: Was Jesus illiterate?
(14-10-2011 08:44 PM)Jesus H Christ Wrote:  Of course I am not illiterate. The fact I am responding now proves that, defacto or not. Anyways I never had to read in my life as the truth was instilled in me. On earth you could say it was encoded in my DNA at birth so to speak. I'm sure you'll all understand.

Yup, I'm a programmer and you're just a program. Been there, programmed you.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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14-10-2011, 09:09 PM
RE: Was Jesus illiterate?
(14-10-2011 09:03 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-10-2011 08:44 PM)Jesus H Christ Wrote:  Of course I am not illiterate. The fact I am responding now proves that, defacto or not. Anyways I never had to read in my life as the truth was instilled in me. On earth you could say it was encoded in my DNA at birth so to speak. I'm sure you'll all understand.

Yup, I'm a programmer and you're just a program. Been there, programmed you.

You made a Christian program. How thoughtful.
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14-10-2011, 09:19 PM (This post was last modified: 14-10-2011 09:28 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Was Jesus illiterate?
(14-10-2011 09:09 PM)Jesus H Christ Wrote:  
(14-10-2011 09:03 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-10-2011 08:44 PM)Jesus H Christ Wrote:  Of course I am not illiterate. The fact I am responding now proves that, defacto or not. Anyways I never had to read in my life as the truth was instilled in me. On earth you could say it was encoded in my DNA at birth so to speak. I'm sure you'll all understand.

Yup, I'm a programmer and you're just a program. Been there, programmed you.

You made a Christian program. How thoughtful.

Wasn't just me, we wrote it together, ...

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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15-10-2011, 10:54 AM
RE: Was Jesus illiterate?
(14-10-2011 05:01 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  -The apostles were described as "uneducated and ignorant men" in Acts 4:13. People tend to surround themselves with like-minded people. No one wants to hang out with dumbasses or feel stupid by associating with a superior mind.

This doesn't necessarily mean they were illiterate. It just means they didn't have the kind of advanced theological training of a seminary would provide today.

Jesus didn't need to leave a written record because he had a different way to make sure his teachings were preserved.

Quote:These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
(John 14:25-26 ESV)

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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17-10-2011, 06:38 AM
RE: Was Jesus illiterate?
Short Answer - Nodbody knows. Historians argue a lot about it.

Long Answer - A lot hinges on what Jesus's father, Joeseph did.

According to the Greek, Joeseph was a 'tekton' which is the root of our words like technology, technician etc.

A teckton could be anything, from a stonemason or carpenter to a metal worker or tent maker. Tent making was a serious business in Roman times and the apostle Pauls family were considered well-to-do Citizens of the empire thanks to thier wealth. Paul actually subsidises a lot of his travels by selling tents on the side.

Some historians assert that Jesus and Joeseph worked in the rebuilding of the city of Sepphoris, just round the corner from Nazereth. Joeseph the stone mason would have been relatively wealthy and probably have had the means to teach his son to not only read and write, but also have a basic understanding of maths, physics and geometary.

Others assert that Joeseph was further down the social order, more of a laborer or assistent tekton - in which case Jesus would have been put to work almost immediately and would never have learnt the 'secrets' of a master craftsman. This view sits far better with Christians, but it's entirely up for debate.

Regardless of the conjecture, neither Jesus, nor anyone who met him wrote anything that stands up to proper historical scrutiny - all we have are later sources. This is odd when you consider that most other great men, like Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great, Ceasar Augustus, Ghengis Kahn and Elvis ALL have writings attributed to them or thier contempories that still exist in a largely unedited form.

For Jesus - Perhaps the most telling evidence is the lack of it.

"Christianity is like a diet where you eat lots of chocolate cake all week, and then on Sunday you mentally scold yourself and "try again" only to repeat the cycle." - Buddy Christ
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17-10-2011, 12:06 PM
RE: Was Jesus illiterate?
Was Luke Skywalker illiterate?

That question has just as much meaning, and at least Star Wars was a good story.
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