Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
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07-03-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: was marry asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(07-03-2016 11:00 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(04-03-2016 10:31 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Human sacrifice was one of the primary goals that Jews tasked themselves with eradicating.

WHY WOULD THEY WANT A HUMAN TO SACRIFICE HIMSELF FOR THEM?!

Claiming that G-d is a human, and then sacrificing that human is the ultimate slap in the face to Jewish values. It's like the president of PETA holding a banquet with a delicious prime rib dinner and dogfighting as the main entertainment.

Where in the scriptures (or Talmud or anywhere you like) were Jews tasked with the eradication of human sacrifice (among Gentiles)?

Claiming that God became human and died as a sacrifice is not a slap in the face to Jewish values, it's a rebuke to Jewish revisionist thought on the nature of the Messiah's mission. In Jesus's day, the people knew the Messiah-ben-Yosef would suffer for the people. They just didn't get that Jesus was also the Messiah-ben-David who would lead the people to ultimate victory in this world.

Modern Jewish thought (by modern, I mean post ANE/post written Talmud) decries having a human sacrifice for us. You should read the NT, though--it has immense volumes of apologetics within that will address most of your concerns.

But again, I'm not sure why you're at TTA. I admit I proselytize my faith here. I haven't seen you ask people to convert to Judaism, so why the interest in atheism? Are you thinking of abandoning Judaism for atheism, and if so, would you then cease on reproving my Christian worldview based on Jewish beliefs and practices?

Thanks.

I'll address your other points later, but my reasoning for being on TTA is stated in my bio.

In short, I came to learn first hand what atheists are like, and I found that I really like the people here. As a bonus, I enjoy trying to educate people about what Judaism is, and what it isn't, because so many people (Christians, mainly) try to speak on our behalf.
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07-03-2016, 11:14 AM
RE: was marry asked to come get Jesus for being mad
OK Q tell us how the resting place of Jesus is glorious? I thunk he was supposedly in Heaven and still on duty. No?
These prophecies are obvious only to those who have been told all their lives what they mean, not to people who actually look at them trying to decipher meaning from them. I only insert myself into these conversations once in a while, when I am really curious about a specific thing. So can you explain what abotu the resting place of Jesus is glorious?
Messiah from David's house and followed by Gentiles: "...There shall be a
Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles
shall seek Him, And His resting place shall be glorious." -Isaiah 11:10
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07-03-2016, 11:47 AM
RE: was marry asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(07-03-2016 10:56 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(04-03-2016 10:14 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Did you even bother to read anything I wrote? God the Father is part of a larger phrase that is the name of the child in verse 6. It doesn't matter who the child is -- his name is not "God the Father". This is clear if you read a Jewish translation rather than a Christian one.

Also, sacrificing my life for others is nothing like sacrificing my life "for their sins". If I was in a position to sacrifice my life for others and chose to do so, it would be because I loved them, or thought their collective lives were worth more than my single life, or something like that. It would have absolutely nothing to do with "their sins". That is quite simply a very silly concept. The examples you give have nothing to do with atonement, and meaningful atonement can only be done by the guilty person. Someone else dying for something wrong that I did does nothing at all to lessen my guilt -- if anything, it would increase my guilt. The whole concept is stupid. Period.

You do realize you are saying your life is worth sacrificing for collective lives, but that Jesus's sacrifice for the eternal lives of millions or billions wasn't worth it? That has to do more with your disbelief in heaven than in pure logic. Do you disagree?

So let me get this straight: In order to secure our eternal lives, God had to become human and allow us to kill him. Does that make any sense at all to you? Because it sure doesn't make any sense to me. If you think it's "pure logic", you need to brush up on your Logic 101.
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07-03-2016, 11:53 AM
RE: was marry asked to come get Jesus for being mad
Quote:Does that make any sense at all to you?

Be careful young padavan. Dont ask such a question if you arent prepared for the (silly) answer. Drinking Beverage
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07-03-2016, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2016 01:41 PM by Leo.)
RE: was marry asked to come get Jesus for being mad

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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07-03-2016, 01:39 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2016 01:43 PM by Leo.)
RE: was marry asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(07-03-2016 11:06 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(07-03-2016 11:00 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Where in the scriptures (or Talmud or anywhere you like) were Jews tasked with the eradication of human sacrifice (among Gentiles)?

Claiming that God became human and died as a sacrifice is not a slap in the face to Jewish values, it's a rebuke to Jewish revisionist thought on the nature of the Messiah's mission. In Jesus's day, the people knew the Messiah-ben-Yosef would suffer for the people. They just didn't get that Jesus was also the Messiah-ben-David who would lead the people to ultimate victory in this world.

Modern Jewish thought (by modern, I mean post ANE/post written Talmud) decries having a human sacrifice for us. You should read the NT, though--it has immense volumes of apologetics within that will address most of your concerns.

But again, I'm not sure why you're at TTA. I admit I proselytize my faith here. I haven't seen you ask people to convert to Judaism, so why the interest in atheism? Are you thinking of abandoning Judaism for atheism, and if so, would you then cease on reproving my Christian worldview based on Jewish beliefs and practices?

Thanks.

I'll address your other points later, but my reasoning for being on TTA is stated in my bio.

In short, I came to learn first hand what atheists are like, and I found that I really like the people here. As a bonus, I enjoy trying to educate people about what Judaism is, and what it isn't, because so many people (Christians, mainly) try to speak on our behalf.

Don't mind this Q guy. He isn't happy with your presence because his evangelism in this site is a epic failure. You are helping us to expose his crazy cult as bullshit.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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07-03-2016, 01:49 PM
RE: was marry asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(07-03-2016 01:39 PM)Leo Wrote:  
(07-03-2016 11:06 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I'll address your other points later, but my reasoning for being on TTA is stated in my bio.

In short, I came to learn first hand what atheists are like, and I found that I really like the people here. As a bonus, I enjoy trying to educate people about what Judaism is, and what it isn't, because so many people (Christians, mainly) try to speak on our behalf.

Don't mind this Q guy. He isn't happy with your presence because his evangelism in this site is a epic failure. You are helping us to expose his crazy cult as bullshit.

I think it also blows his mind that there's a theist on the site who's not evangelizing. This greatly confuses him.
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07-03-2016, 02:47 PM
RE: was marry asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(07-03-2016 01:49 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(07-03-2016 01:39 PM)Leo Wrote:  Don't mind this Q guy. He isn't happy with your presence because his evangelism in this site is a epic failure. You are helping us to expose his crazy cult as bullshit.

I think it also blows his mind that there's a theist on the site who's not evangelizing. This greatly confuses him.

I'm not sure there are any theist success stories that come from this site, the one's like Q are probably a net loss for Christianity.

I can't see presuppositional delusion as an effective evangelistic tool.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-03-2016, 05:18 PM
RE: was marry asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(07-03-2016 01:49 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(07-03-2016 01:39 PM)Leo Wrote:  Don't mind this Q guy. He isn't happy with your presence because his evangelism in this site is a epic failure. You are helping us to expose his crazy cult as bullshit.

I think it also blows his mind that there's a theist on the site who's not evangelizing. This greatly confuses him.

I think it comes down to a turf war with him. Tongue
(Sorry, Q. Just teasing.)
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07-03-2016, 05:34 PM
RE: was marry asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(07-03-2016 05:18 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I think it comes down to a turf war with him. Tongue
(Sorry, Q. Just teasing.)

...but probably correct, all the same. Q doesn't like people who know the Bible better than he does. Which is rather unfortunate, because he doesn't actually know it all that well, and thus ends up disliking most of the people here.

He can dismiss most of it as atheistic prejudice leading to misinterpretations of the text, of course (with his specific reading obviously being the correct one). Having another theist pointing out his failure to grasp the meaning behind the thing he's based his life around, though... that's got to rankle.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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