Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
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31-03-2016, 05:49 PM
RE: Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(31-03-2016 04:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 01:58 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I'm sorry, but this sort of response to my appeal for your evidence is nonsensical; this collection of phrases is without meaning. Considering your claim that the purported "evidence" you hold is only apparent for the individual holding it—without any disclosure to a third party—then it cannot be considered evidence according to any/all understanding of the word.

Imagine if a prosecuting attorney said to the defense; "I've got evidence here that proves your client committed the crime, so it's not really necessary for me to divulge it—the judge and jury will just have to take my word for its existence. And of course that evidence should be sufficient to convict your client."
Holy crap. That is what I have been saying.

There's that reading comprehension problem again. Syz was explaining why what you have been saying is irrational.

Quote:My own self isn't a court of law involving others. It involves me.

But to be rational you should be weighing evidence in a similar manner

Quote:evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.

"you will be asked to give proof of your identity"

synonyms:evidence,verification,corroboration,authentication,confirmation,certifi​cation,documentation,validation,attestation,substantiation

OK....

Quote:And yes, what happened to me, my memories, direction due to, recounting there of, and anything else related to that experience in any way indeed does verify, corroborate, and confirm my Faith in GOD. And therefore is indeed proof for me personally.

And that is irrational since your "evidence" can not be confirmed, validated, documented, examined, tested, or repeated. If it can't be evidence for anybody else then you should be seriously questioning why you put any stock in it. Faith is not a path to knowledge, it is a fast track to fantasy.

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31-03-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(31-03-2016 05:49 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 04:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Holy crap. That is what I have been saying.

There's that reading comprehension problem again. Syz was explaining why what you have been saying is irrational.

Quote:My own self isn't a court of law involving others. It involves me.

But to be rational you should be weighing evidence in a similar manner

Quote:evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.

"you will be asked to give proof of your identity"

synonyms:evidence,verification,corroboration,authentication,confirmation,certifi​cation,documentation,validation,attestation,substantiation

OK....

Quote:And yes, what happened to me, my memories, direction due to, recounting there of, and anything else related to that experience in any way indeed does verify, corroborate, and confirm my Faith in GOD. And therefore is indeed proof for me personally.

And that is irrational since your "evidence" can not be confirmed, validated, documented, examined, tested, or repeated. If it can't be evidence for anybody else then you should be seriously questioning why you put any stock in it. Faith is not a path to knowledge, it is a fast track to fantasy.
It isn't based on faith. It is what gave me Faith.
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31-03-2016, 09:35 PM
RE: Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(31-03-2016 01:40 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 01:34 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Proof is the same.

You have neither evidence nor proof. If you did, you would necessarily be capable of demonstrating it.
I'm not God and can't make GOD do anything, nor would I try. I have proof internally not in material form and I have written proof that is dated that backs up my experience, but none of that equate a to proof for a third party. Yes, I am aware that proof and evidence in general are reproducible.

If you have proof, then you need no faith.
You're probably the ONLY believer ever, who needs no faith.
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Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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31-03-2016, 09:58 PM
RE: Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(31-03-2016 10:21 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  So you are saying:

1. It is illogical to pray to God--even though adherents of religions, even vastly different traditions, have "told you" over and again that is the path.

2. It is illogical to ask God to come to you sooner rather than later--you'd prefer, say, a deathbed visitation on the way to perdition.

3. It is illogical to ask an omniscient/omnipresent being for particular proof before trusting Him for salvation.

I'm going to say, taken together, that atheists are living in denial. What would you ask of God that would be so different from what I've outlined in my last post?

All of that is illogical as there is no evidence that any gods exist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-04-2016, 10:07 AM
RE: Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(31-03-2016 10:39 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 10:21 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  So you are saying:

1. It is illogical to pray to God--even though adherents of religions, even vastly different traditions, have "told you" over and again that is the path.

2. It is illogical to ask God to come to you sooner rather than later--you'd prefer, say, a deathbed visitation on the way to perdition.

3. It is illogical to ask an omniscient/omnipresent being for particular proof before trusting Him for salvation.

I'm going to say, taken together, that atheists are living in denial. What would you ask of God that would be so different from what I've outlined in my last post?

I thought you said earlier, in this thread, that it was prophecy that convinced you before you even trusted in jesus.

So are you saying you prayed to a god/jesus that you didn't believe in or trust for proof of them and the understanding of the prophecies is what the prove was that was given to you?

As a skeptic, I wasn't convinced that quick--and even after studying the Bible and also its prophecies for some months--and even after that, when I knew it was right to trust Jesus--I still didn't want to do so. There was some prayer also, like this one, which I think will fit you:

"God, if you exist, I need you to show yourself to me in ways that I cannot say are simply coincidence. Help me understand."

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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01-04-2016, 10:13 AM
RE: Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(31-03-2016 10:39 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 06:05 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Yeah...unfortunately my experience was one of a personal nature that no one else really witnessed. It's way off topic anyway. Not to mention my experience isn't proof for any one else and never will be.

Can you please explain what this experience was in broad, non-personal terms? And why is it that nobody else witnessed it? You've claimed—several times here—to have witnessed evidence supporting your god's existence, so it seems strange that you can't produce that evidence when asked.

And why won't you let us be the judge of whether or not your evidence is proof or not? If you think it can't stand up to independent scrutiny, then it can't really be sound evidence can it? If you're going to make an extravagant claim that you assert proves something, then you need to have something of substance in its support, otherwise we're more than entitled to write off your claims as pure bullshit. (Thanks CS.)

And I can't accept your claim that this is "off topic" as a get out of jail free card. It looks very much as though you're trying to avoid my questions.

TTA'ers constantly judge my knowledge, lifestyle, experience, comments, etc. Judge this--I asked God to show me if He exists in ways I could not write off as a coincidence, and as I studied more about Jesus Christ, I asked for evidence that Jesus is the real deal.

Do you want to me to ask the current hundreds of millions of persons who've done the exact same thing or much the same thing, and have thus--exactly as the Bible says--had brought personally to them opportunities--to all post their millions of claims here, so that you can sift them all, judge them all, and tell all of us, "No. I hear what you are saying, that God is invisible because of human sin, but will reveal Himself to individuals who ask sincerely, but I don't want to ask sincerely [because sincerely, I'm an atheist, and I'm pissed off at God and/or His followers]."

You didn't ask, did you? So guess what? God, being VERY fair, isn't going to step away from a level playing field to bring you my evidence, or your evidence, or God's evidence. You want to vote for Clinton because there's "no evidence" she's a crook? You want to believe there was no holocaust because there's "no evidence" and etc.? Thus is the power of belief, and of non-belief.

PS. I don't remember if I EVER asked someone else for their evidence. I probably did. But the thought of getting straight to the "man" Himself? That was, admittedly, enticing. Only a die hard, TTAtheist would ever miss a chance to go to the source and not the eyewitness of the source! Don't miss out!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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01-04-2016, 10:14 AM
RE: Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(01-04-2016 10:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 10:39 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I thought you said earlier, in this thread, that it was prophecy that convinced you before you even trusted in jesus.

So are you saying you prayed to a god/jesus that you didn't believe in or trust for proof of them and the understanding of the prophecies is what the prove was that was given to you?

As a skeptic, I wasn't convinced that quick--and even after studying the Bible and also its prophecies for some months--and even after that, when I knew it was right to trust Jesus--I still didn't want to do so. There was some prayer also, like this one, which I think will fit you:

"God, if you exist, I need you to show yourself to me in ways that I cannot say are simply coincidence. Help me understand."

You a skeptic ? Liaaaaaaarrr.Rolleyes

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01-04-2016, 10:14 AM
RE: Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(01-04-2016 10:13 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 10:39 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Can you please explain what this experience was in broad, non-personal terms? And why is it that nobody else witnessed it? You've claimed—several times here—to have witnessed evidence supporting your god's existence, so it seems strange that you can't produce that evidence when asked.

And why won't you let us be the judge of whether or not your evidence is proof or not? If you think it can't stand up to independent scrutiny, then it can't really be sound evidence can it? If you're going to make an extravagant claim that you assert proves something, then you need to have something of substance in its support, otherwise we're more than entitled to write off your claims as pure bullshit. (Thanks CS.)

And I can't accept your claim that this is "off topic" as a get out of jail free card. It looks very much as though you're trying to avoid my questions.

TTA'ers constantly judge my knowledge, lifestyle, experience, comments, etc. Judge this--I asked God to show me if He exists in ways I could not write off as a coincidence, and as I studied more about Jesus Christ, I asked for evidence that Jesus is the real deal.

Do you want to me to ask the current hundreds of millions of persons who've done the exact same thing or much the same thing, and have thus--exactly as the Bible says--had brought personally to them opportunities--to all post their millions of claims here, so that you can sift them all, judge them all, and tell all of us, "No. I hear what you are saying, that God is invisible because of human sin, but will reveal Himself to individuals who ask sincerely, but I don't want to ask sincerely [because sincerely, I'm an atheist, and I'm pissed off at God and/or His followers]."

You didn't ask, did you? So guess what? God, being VERY fair, isn't going to step away from a level playing field to bring you my evidence, or your evidence, or God's evidence. You want to vote for Clinton because there's "no evidence" she's a crook? You want to believe there was no holocaust because there's "no evidence" and etc.? Thus is the power of belief, and of non-belief.

PS. I don't remember if I EVER asked someone else for their evidence. I probably did. But the thought of getting straight to the "man" Himself? That was, admittedly, enticing. Only a die hard, TTAtheist would ever miss a chance to go to the source and not the eyewitness of the source! Don't miss out!

Bucky has typed "Jesus is Lord". Why are you still here?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-04-2016, 10:15 AM
RE: Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(01-04-2016 10:13 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 10:39 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Can you please explain what this experience was in broad, non-personal terms? And why is it that nobody else witnessed it? You've claimed—several times here—to have witnessed evidence supporting your god's existence, so it seems strange that you can't produce that evidence when asked.

And why won't you let us be the judge of whether or not your evidence is proof or not? If you think it can't stand up to independent scrutiny, then it can't really be sound evidence can it? If you're going to make an extravagant claim that you assert proves something, then you need to have something of substance in its support, otherwise we're more than entitled to write off your claims as pure bullshit. (Thanks CS.)

And I can't accept your claim that this is "off topic" as a get out of jail free card. It looks very much as though you're trying to avoid my questions.

TTA'ers constantly judge my knowledge, lifestyle, experience, comments, etc. Judge this--I asked God to show me if He exists in ways I could not write off as a coincidence, and as I studied more about Jesus Christ, I asked for evidence that Jesus is the real deal.

Do you want to me to ask the current hundreds of millions of persons who've done the exact same thing or much the same thing, and have thus--exactly as the Bible says--had brought personally to them opportunities--to all post their millions of claims here, so that you can sift them all, judge them all, and tell all of us, "No. I hear what you are saying, that God is invisible because of human sin, but will reveal Himself to individuals who ask sincerely, but I don't want to ask sincerely [because sincerely, I'm an atheist, and I'm pissed off at God and/or His followers]."

You didn't ask, did you? So guess what? God, being VERY fair, isn't going to step away from a level playing field to bring you my evidence, or your evidence, or God's evidence. You want to vote for Clinton because there's "no evidence" she's a crook? You want to believe there was no holocaust because there's "no evidence" and etc.? Thus is the power of belief, and of non-belief.

PS. I don't remember if I EVER asked someone else for their evidence. I probably did. But the thought of getting straight to the "man" Himself? That was, admittedly, enticing. Only a die hard, TTAtheist would ever miss a chance to go to the source and not the eyewitness of the source! Don't miss out!

Jesus wasn't a real deal , he never acomplished a single messiah prophecy.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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01-04-2016, 10:17 AM
RE: Was Mary asked to come get Jesus for being mad
(31-03-2016 09:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 10:21 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  So you are saying:

1. It is illogical to pray to God--even though adherents of religions, even vastly different traditions, have "told you" over and again that is the path.

2. It is illogical to ask God to come to you sooner rather than later--you'd prefer, say, a deathbed visitation on the way to perdition.

3. It is illogical to ask an omniscient/omnipresent being for particular proof before trusting Him for salvation.

I'm going to say, taken together, that atheists are living in denial. What would you ask of God that would be so different from what I've outlined in my last post?

All of that is illogical as there is no evidence that any gods exist.

And each of those is logical IF any god exists. And this we both know. The difference is, I acted on the chance, not because of Heaven and Hell only, or Pascal's philosophical wager, but because I'd be stupid and/or an atheist, not to at least investigate.

The reason, Chas, why you speak in more absolutes than a Sith Lord in this arena, is this--you say things that sound good but are absolutes and slightly off, like "...There is no evidence that any gods exist." A more appropriate answer, one I would make if I was in your shoes, is "There is lousy evidence that God exists." After all, I know there are a billion people in this world who will swear under a (secular or religious) oath that God exists. You can call us teeming millions "deceived testimony evidence" or "poor testimony evidence" but calling us NO evidence is rude at best, stupid at worst.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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