Was banned for asking...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-09-2011, 11:41 PM
RE: Was banned for asking...
(10-09-2011 10:45 PM)Crucify This! Wrote:  I think you went out of your way looking for trouble. Though I know you had good intentions, you simply won't change someones opinion who they themselves didn't arrive at the opinion through diligent research. ( might have heard this here) The best way to prove to the religious that it's all fictional is to ask them to read the bible.

Christians treat the bible like a software user agreement, They don't read it, and click "I Accept"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Monk's post
12-09-2011, 12:27 AM
RE: Was banned for asking...
(11-09-2011 11:41 PM)Monk Wrote:  
(10-09-2011 10:45 PM)Crucify This! Wrote:  I think you went out of your way looking for trouble. Though I know you had good intentions, you simply won't change someones opinion who they themselves didn't arrive at the opinion through diligent research. ( might have heard this here) The best way to prove to the religious that it's all fictional is to ask them to read the bible.

Christians treat the bible like a software user agreement, They don't read it, and click "I Accept"

In addition to reading the bible, perhaps they should also research where their god originated/was invented. That'll take the shine off their halo!

"To think of what the world has suffered from superstition, from religion, from the worship of beast and stone and god, is
almost enough to make one insane."

Robert G. Ingersoll
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-09-2011, 01:38 AM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2011 01:43 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Was banned for asking...
(07-09-2011 11:17 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(07-09-2011 05:21 AM)Monk Wrote:  I am a person of logic, and math. If I took the bible literally, I'd be doing this

12am: Deuteronomy wants me to go stone someone for being raped..... So I have to get an angry christian mob to help me
4pm: Leviticus wants me to sacrifice cows and pour the blood over my child's head. (Direct instructions from God mind you.)
9pm: Genesis wants me to go have intercourse with my two twin daughters and have a child with them....

Where does the Bible command you to do any of these things?

Hey Theo, here are some referenced quotes for you on much the same theme. I've chosen them out of hundreds. I'm sure everyone reading this post would love to hear your explanations for these. I noticed you have notched up over a thousand posts on a Christian forum. You're obviously quite an authority on the bible, so please don't disappoint us.

God murdered people for the most trivial of reasons, most commonly for not being Jewish, but also for such things as glancing the wrong way, saying the wrong thing, not doing what they were told, or because their parents offended him. He allegedly killed over 300,000 people and gave orders for over one and a half million more to be murdered. I will choose only a few examples from a list of hundreds to give the reader a taste of how cheap life was in the Old Testament.

Kill sons of sinners:
“Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their father! Never again must they rise to conquer the world and cover the face of the earth with their cities” (Isaiah 14:21 NJB).

Kill people who don't obey priests:
“If anyone presumes to disobey either the priest who is there in the service of Yahweh your God, or the judge, that person must die. You must banish this evil from Israel” (Deuteronomy 17:12 NJB).

Death for hitting mum or dad:
“Anyone who strikes father or mother will be put to death” (Exodus 21:15 NJB).

Death for cursing mum or dad:
“Hence: "Anyone who curses father or mother will be put to death. Having cursed father or mother, the blood will be on that person's own head” (Leviticus 20:9 NJB).

Death for adultery:
"The man who commits adultery with his neighbour's wife will be put to death, he and the woman” (Leviticus 20:10 NJB).

Genocide;
“And all living things that stirred on earth perished; birds, cattle, wild animals, all the creatures swarming over the earth, and all human beings. Everything with the least breath of life in its nostrils, everything on dry land, died. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out, people, animals, creeping things and birds; they were wiped off the earth and only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark” (Genesis 7:21-23 NJB). God allegedly initiated the largest genocide in history killing, nearly every person from newborns to the elderly in a flood. He wrecked his own creation like the little boy who got frustrated and smashed the model airplane he had been building.
“My angel will precede you and lead you to the home of the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Canaanites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, whom I shall exterminate” (Exodus 23:23 NJB).

Kill false prophets:
“Then, if anyone still goes on prophesying, his parents, his own father and mother will say to him, ‘You shall not live, since you utter lies in Yahweh's name.’ And even while he is prophesying, his parents, his own father and mother will pierce him through” (Zechariah 13:3 NJB).

So the Jewish people were ordered to kill those who worshipped another god including friends or family, kill anyone who refused to listen to a priest, and kill any “false” prophets. Obviously “God's” words justified killing people.

These stories, while not necessarily describing actual murders, confirm that the ancient Jews thought human life was cheap and expendable. Many Christians throughout history have thought this gave them license to kill people, and millions have died as a consequence.

The Bible is still being used to justify killing people today. Even some of our governments, as well as military and religious leaders, judge wars as "moral" based on biblical reasoning. In the Gulf War, for example, an F-16 fighter/bomber had "Isaiah 21:9" written on its bombs:
”Babylon has fallen, has fallen, and all the images of her gods he has shattered to the ground!” (Isaiah 21:9 NJB).

Infanticide
Yahweh thought there were some infants or young children who deserved death:
“All those who are found will be stabbed, all those captured will fall by the sword, their babies dashed to pieces before their eyes, their houses plundered, their wives raped. Look, against them I am stirring up the Medes who care nothing for silver, who set no value by gold. Bows will annihilate the young men, they will have no pity for the fruit of the womb, or mercy in their eyes for children” (Isaiah 13:15-18 NJB).

Children and unborn fetuses should be killed for being Samaritans:
“Samaria will pay the penalty for having rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, their little children will be dashed to pieces and their pregnant women disembowelled” (Hosea 14:1 NJB).

God ordered the killing of boys and any women that might be pregnant:
“Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him” (Numbers 31:17).

God threatened to kill children:
“Ephraim is blasted, their root has dried out, they will bear no more fruit. And even if they do bear children I shall slaughter the darlings of their womb” (Hosea 9:16 NJB).

God blessed people for smashing infants against rock:
“A blessing on anyone who seizes your babies and shatters them against rock” (Psalms 137:9 NJB).

The authors of these quotes used infanticide to solve some of their perceived racial or social problems.

Homosexuality
Kill homosexuals:
“The man who has intercourse with a man in the same way as with a woman: they have done a hateful thing together; they will be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads” (Leviticus 20:13 NJB).

No other significant cultures at the time anywhere in the world had a problem with homosexuality. Other cultures had an attitude very similar to that of Greece and Rome; they simply accepted it between consenting adults. These writings are probably the original source of the discrimination against millions of innocent homosexual people in the Christian and Islamic world.

Rape and Pedophilia
Gang rape:
“They had not gone to bed when the house was surrounded by the townspeople, the men of Sodom both young and old, all the people without exception...Look, I have two daughters who are virgins. I am ready to send them out to you, for you to treat as you please, but do nothing to these men since they are now under the protection of my roof” (Genesis 19:4, 8 NJB). Lot offered his virgin daughters to be gang raped rather than his male guests being violated. The girls would have been horrified, but that didn’t matter. Girls could be used. It was the male visitors that mustn’t be shamed. This is from Genesis, from the same author who claimed God made the world in six days.

Marry your rape victim:
“If a man meets a young virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her, sleeps with her and is caught in the act, her ravisher must give the girl's father fifty silver shekels; since he has exploited her, she must be his wife and, as long as he lives, he may not divorce her” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NJB). The raping of an un-betrothed virgin was a violation of the rights of her father. The poor dad should be compensated. That was easily done by selling the daughter for fifty shekels to the man who raped her!

Death to the rape victim:
“If a virgin is engaged to a man, and another man encounters her in the town and has sexual intercourse with her, you will take them both to the gate of the town in question and stone them to death: the girl, for not having called for help in the town; the man, for having exploited his fellow-citizen's wife. You must banish this evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NJB). It is clear that God didn't care about the rape victim. She deserved death because she didn’t cry out loud enough. The rapist was punished because he violated another man’s property.

Keep the virgin girls for sex:

“but spare the lives of the young girls who have never slept with a man, and keep them for yourselves” (Numbers 31:18 NJB).

It is clear God gave license to the rape of young virgin girls. Today we call this pedophilia, criminal activity involving sexual offences against children by adults. It was the social norm in some cultures for twelve- or thirteen-year-old girls to be married off or used for sex in ancient times, and God encouraged it.

Have God’s words had any effect on Christian attitudes to paedophilia over the centuries? It is hard to know and any discussion of this must generalize. Most priests read the Bible every day. I think it is possible that some of them have failed to appreciate the tragedy of pedophilia because it was so commonplace in the Old Testament.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Mark Fulton's post
12-09-2011, 03:57 AM
RE: Was banned for asking...
Mark, you're making a BIG mistake! You're taking all of those out of context! (extreme sarcasm).
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-09-2011, 10:15 AM
RE: Was banned for asking...
(12-09-2011 01:38 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  God murdered people for the most trivial of reasons, most commonly for not being Jewish, but also for such things as glancing the wrong way, saying the wrong thing, not doing what they were told, or because their parents offended him. He allegedly killed over 300,000 people and gave orders for over one and a half million more to be murdered. I will choose only a few examples from a list of hundreds to give the reader a taste of how cheap life was in the Old Testament.
God never does anything for a trivial reason but there are times when we simply can't understand the reasons for his actions.

There is only one reason for death and that is sin. Romans 5:12 says,
Quote:Sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because wall sinned.
All of us are going to die. Some of us are allowed to live out our full lifespan and die of old age but sometimes God intervenes and ends our lives before we reach this point but the fact that we die is a consequence of the fact that we are all sinners. All God's intervention does is change the time and manner of death.

If you want explanations for the actions you mentioned in your post the best place to look would be a good commentary. Here is a site where you can read several of them online:

http://studylight.org/com/

I am sure the people who wrote these commentaries knew more about the Bible than I do and can provide better answers to your questions.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes theophilus's post
13-09-2011, 10:32 AM
RE: Was banned for asking...
(13-09-2011 10:15 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(12-09-2011 01:38 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  God murdered people for the most trivial of reasons, most commonly for not being Jewish, but also for such things as glancing the wrong way, saying the wrong thing, not doing what they were told, or because their parents offended him. He allegedly killed over 300,000 people and gave orders for over one and a half million more to be murdered. I will choose only a few examples from a list of hundreds to give the reader a taste of how cheap life was in the Old Testament.
God never does anything for a trivial reason but there are times when we simply can't understand the reasons for his actions.

There is only one reason for death and that is sin. Romans 5:12 says,
Quote:Sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because wall sinned.
All of us are going to die. Some of us are allowed to live out our full lifespan and die of old age but sometimes God intervenes and ends our lives before we reach this point but the fact that we die is a consequence of the fact that we are all sinners. All God's intervention does is change the time and manner of death.

If you want explanations for the actions you mentioned in your post the best place to look would be a good commentary. Here is a site where you can read several of them online:

http://studylight.org/com/

I am sure the people who wrote these commentaries knew more about the Bible than I do and can provide better answers to your questions.

Why does any other organism die then? We have extensive fossil records that show normal life spans (normal relative to one another in the same species) and normal causes of death.

Death is a causality of the inherently inefficient biological system. An accumulation of genetic errors coupled with cell damage from generation of heat during the production and consumption of energy are big contributors to the aging process and eventually death. What evidence can you offer to suggest that any organism is capable of performing normal biologic processes and still live forever? Does it make more sense for the average lifespans of individuals to be on the rise (which it is) as opposed to being on the decline? Noah was supposedly >200 yrs old (I don't remember the specifics). No evidence exists to suggest that any human can live to such an age, even today with all of our advances in nutrition and medicine. So, during a time when the average lifespan would have been in the late 20's - 30's an individual was 10x that?

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-09-2011, 11:13 AM
RE: Was banned for asking...
(13-09-2011 10:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Why does any other organism die then? We have extensive fossil records that show normal life spans (normal relative to one another in the same species) and normal causes of death.

Adam was placed in authority over the world so his sin has affected the entire world, including the animals living in it.

Quote:Death is a causality of the inherently inefficient biological system. An accumulation of genetic errors coupled with cell damage from generation of heat during the production and consumption of energy are big contributors to the aging process and eventually death. What evidence can you offer to suggest that any organism is capable of performing normal biologic processes and still live forever?

The processes that bring about death obviously weren't part of the original creation but are a consequence of sin. They are the means by which God brings about death rather than being the cause of death.

Quote: Does it make more sense for the average lifespans of individuals to be on the rise (which it is) as opposed to being on the decline? Noah was supposedly >200 yrs old (I don't remember the specifics). No evidence exists to suggest that any human can live to such an age, even today with all of our advances in nutrition and medicine.
People live longer because advances in medicine, sanitation, and nutrition enable more people to live out their full lifespans rather than dying prematurely as a result of accident or disease. But our bodies eventually reach a point where they are so worn out it is impossible to keep them functioning any longer. The longest anyone can live before reaching this point is a little over a hundred years and most die before this age but at the beginning many were capable of living several hundred years. Modern scientific advances have masked this decline but haven't eliminated it.

(Noah was 600 years old and lived 350 years after the flood.)

Quote:So, during a time when the average lifespan would have been in the late 20's - 30's an individual was 10x that?

How do you know what the average lifespan was then?

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes theophilus's post
13-09-2011, 12:09 PM
RE: Was banned for asking...
(13-09-2011 11:13 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(13-09-2011 10:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Why does any other organism die then? We have extensive fossil records that show normal life spans (normal relative to one another in the same species) and normal causes of death.

Adam was placed in authority over the world so his sin has affected the entire world, including the animals living in it.

Quote:Death is a causality of the inherently inefficient biological system. An accumulation of genetic errors coupled with cell damage from generation of heat during the production and consumption of energy are big contributors to the aging process and eventually death. What evidence can you offer to suggest that any organism is capable of performing normal biologic processes and still live forever?

The processes that bring about death obviously weren't part of the original creation but are a consequence of sin. They are the means by which God brings about death rather than being the cause of death.

Quote: Does it make more sense for the average lifespans of individuals to be on the rise (which it is) as opposed to being on the decline? Noah was supposedly >200 yrs old (I don't remember the specifics). No evidence exists to suggest that any human can live to such an age, even today with all of our advances in nutrition and medicine.
People live longer because advances in medicine, sanitation, and nutrition enable more people to live out their full lifespans rather than dying prematurely as a result of accident or disease. But our bodies eventually reach a point where they are so worn out it is impossible to keep them functioning any longer. The longest anyone can live before reaching this point is a little over a hundred years and most die before this age but at the beginning many were capable of living several hundred years. Modern scientific advances have masked this decline but haven't eliminated it.

(Noah was 600 years old and lived 350 years after the flood.)

Quote:So, during a time when the average lifespan would have been in the late 20's - 30's an individual was 10x that?

How do you know what the average lifespan was then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expect..._over_time

Physiologically and using other dating methods we can determine the age of an individual at death. Genealogical histories also provide DOB and DOD for ages.

What about the fossil record and its record of death? Or do you ignore the fossil record and consider it to be a result of the flood? If so, what evidence causes you to believe it is such.

If your hypothesis is that organisms could live forever, if not for the advent of sin, then it should be possible to determine a way to remove these imperfections and expand lifespans to infinity. The problem with this hypothesis is that it is not scientific. It is not testable or falsifiable.

People alive today should praise the creation of sin. Without sin, people would have been immortal. Meaning Adam and Eve would never have had reason to procreate, because the human species (and every other species) would have had no need to do so. And they would not have needed to eat. In fact they would be unable to eat because doing so would kill off plant life, and since plants would also have no need to reproduce they would have gone extinct. So, sin enabled the ENTIRE human species to exist. All praise SIN!

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-09-2011, 09:52 PM
RE: Was banned for asking...
Many versions of 'sin' include sex, dancing, or having fun in anyway. I'm already praising sin. It's blasphemously delicious!

Oh, and Theophilius, you really just sound like your talking nonsense now. But I'll be fair. Quantum Mechanics and Relativity sound like nonsense at first too. So, hows about you show us how you know the things you claim? Remember, claims of books aren't going to do it. We need real world, objectively verifiable evidence. Because if there's no mark left in the real world, the only world we can observe, then how can we actually know of it?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-09-2011, 10:44 PM
RE: Was banned for asking...
(13-09-2011 11:13 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Adam was placed in authority over the world so his sin has affected the entire world, including the animals living in it.

...and if you truly believe that then you have a large problem.

"To think of what the world has suffered from superstition, from religion, from the worship of beast and stone and god, is
almost enough to make one insane."

Robert G. Ingersoll
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: