Was human created as a moral being?
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07-02-2012, 06:36 AM
Was human created as a moral being?
The topic says it all. I wondered, was man really created with morality? I mean, you all know the story about the forbidden apple tree, so I might say that it indicates man was truly created without morals. You know, Eva had to take the morality for humans with a little help from a snake.

So, I might say we were created as creatures who only trust their instincts and feelings, rather than being rational.
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07-02-2012, 07:01 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
.........Two things I'll have to point out.
1. You assume we were created.
2. To answer that question you must have a definition of morality.

A1. This assumption kills any answer you may be looking for.
A2. Morality is subjective. It varies from place to place. What may be immoral to you may be normal for someone else.

Hokay. So now for my answer. Humans are "created" for survival. We do what we do to survive or at least we used to. Nowadays. We are but shadows of our ancestors and we have lost a great many of our natural behaviors. These behaviors still show up in everything we do but their purpose is lost to us. Any "morals" we claim to have are born from these behaviors. For example. People tend to look down upon killing people because it tends to be harmful to our survival.

This is a fairly complicated subject and I'm lazy. So I'm going to let everyone else have a crack at this.

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07-02-2012, 07:05 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
Yeah, I assumed that we were created by purpose.

And about that morality, I didn't mean some aspect of morality. I meant, that were we given moral. You know, the change to think if something is right or wrong.
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07-02-2012, 07:09 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
Well, using what humans define as moral, there are many prime examples in the animal kingdom that show morality. Crows show fidelity, mice show empathy to their trapped mates, altruism seen in primates are the few of the many examples we see morality in places other than within humans. We weren't "created" as moral beings in the sense. Moral behaviour in animals under a certain selection pressure may have been advantageous, and such behaviour will be promoted within the population.

Nurture and nature both play a part in the morality of a person. Nature, in the sense that our genetic makeup can influence us. The slight difference in hormone levels, or a slight alteration in the signalling of the brain, can influence who we are and our main personality. Nurture, in the sense that we learn what is right and wrong from our environment, parental being crucial in the early ages. If for example a child is taught that killing people in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is morally right (which isn't, His Noodliness will abhor such unruly behaviour), the child will take such a statement as fact and incorporates this into his way of life.

With regards to consciousness and thus rationality, such is developed from the evolution of our brains, from the simple cell signalling pathways in bacteria to a large complex organ that is a supercomputer. Our complex brains allow humans to "enter" the next level, the possession of consciousness and awareness of the world around us, and the ability to think rationally. Although our system can be overridden by our instincts and our emotions. Fear, anger, sadness, joy, all have the ability to override our rational mind

By the way, with regards to the story of Adam, Eve and the snake, the tree Eve ate the fruit from is the tree of knowledge. The fruit provided them knowledge to discern right from wrong. I have to this day no idea why God will put the tree there of all places. It's like placing a live wire within the toys of a child and telling the child not to touch the live wire.

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07-02-2012, 07:42 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 07:05 AM)LordiDraken Wrote:  Yeah, I assumed that we were created by purpose.

Since I assume the opposite, I can't participate in this thread! Big Grin
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07-02-2012, 08:13 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 06:36 AM)LordiDraken Wrote:  The topic says it all. I wondered, was man really created with morality? I mean, you all know the story about the forbidden apple tree, so I might say that it indicates man was truly created without morals. You know, Eva had to take the morality for humans with a little help from a snake.

So, I might say we were created as creatures who only trust their instincts and feelings, rather than being rational.

According to what you believe per what you wrote:

No. An amoral being cannot be immoral. End of story.

On the opposite end of that, a perfect being cannot degrade into imperfection.

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07-02-2012, 08:16 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
I said I wouldn't but I can' resist the temptation (satan's ways are mysterious):

Was god created as a moral being?

Judging by the state of our world (that he is responsible for), I hardly think so!

What do you think, KC? Tongue
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07-02-2012, 08:25 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:16 AM)Zat Wrote:  I said I wouldn't but I can' resist the temptation (satan's ways are mysterious):

Was god created as a moral being?

Judging by the state of our world (that he is responsible for), I hardly think so!

What do you think, KC? Tongue

I'll pray for you, brother. Big Grin
But no, God is self-existing, not created. Morality comes from his definition of what is holy and unholy.

The op's premise is theologically correct. Adam and Eve did not know about good and evil until they ate the forbidden fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That's why they were cast out of the garden. If they stayed, they would eat from the Tree of Life and God couldn't have them know about good and evil AND live forever, because that would make them gods as well, and we all know that YHWH is a jealous god and he wouldn't like having the competition!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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07-02-2012, 08:31 AM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2012 08:41 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:16 AM)Zat Wrote:  I said I wouldn't but I can' resist the temptation (satan's ways are mysterious):

Was god created as a moral being?

Judging by the state of our world (that he is responsible for), I hardly think so!

What do you think, KC? Tongue

My views on morality-

God gave us morality that is innate in our evolution to sentience. Morality is based on 2 things: empathy and selfishness.

These two traits are very primitive. When we assimilated into societies this began to bring empathy and selfishness into the forefront and further defined morality.

The teachings of the Bible urge us (humans) to focus on empathy and suppress selfishness that has been carried over from our animalistic nature.

God's morals stand on His own laurels and cannot be judged by us because they serve the purpose of His plan.

Summary:
We evolved morals.
God's morals are His own.
(07-02-2012 08:25 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  The op's premise is theologically correct. Adam and Eve did not know about good and evil until they ate the forbidden fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That's why they were cast out of the garden. If they stayed, they would eat from the Tree of Life and God couldn't have them know about good and evil AND live forever, because that would make them gods as well, and we all know that YHWH is a jealous god and he wouldn't like having the competition!

I have to disagree. I believe it is theologically flawed.

Sin was already present before Adam and Eve (Satan). Adam and Eve had to be created sinful because of these two things:

1) Being amoral cannot produce morals. A shark isn't immoral because they "murder".

2) Adam and Eve could not have been created perfect because perfect cannot choose imperfect. If you are perfect, you cannot sin as it goes against what is your created nature.

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07-02-2012, 08:38 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:31 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  God's morals stand on His own laurels and cannot be judged by us because they serve the purpose of His plan.

Summary:
We evolved morals.
God's morals are His own.

Very convenient (for god).

I wish I were a god so nobody could judge me! Big Grin
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