Was human created as a moral being?
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07-02-2012, 08:41 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:38 AM)Zat Wrote:  
(07-02-2012 08:31 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  God's morals stand on His own laurels and cannot be judged by us because they serve the purpose of His plan.

Summary:
We evolved morals.
God's morals are His own.

Very convenient (for god).

I wish I were a god so nobody could judge me! Big Grin

haha, I know... I know.

But I accept that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, therefore, His morality cannot be judged.

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07-02-2012, 08:44 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:31 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-02-2012 08:16 AM)Zat Wrote:  I said I wouldn't but I can' resist the temptation (satan's ways are mysterious):

Was god created as a moral being?

Judging by the state of our world (that he is responsible for), I hardly think so!

What do you think, KC? Tongue

My views on morality-

God gave us morality that is innate in our evolution to sentience. Morality is based on 2 things: empathy and selfishness.

These two traits are very primitive. When we assimilated into societies this began to bring empathy and selfishness into the forefront and further defined morality.

The teachings of the Bible urge us (humans) to focus on empathy and suppress selfishness that has been carried over from our animalistic nature.

God's morals stand on His own laurels and cannot be judged by us because they serve the purpose of His plan.

Summary:
We evolved morals.
God's morals are His own.
(07-02-2012 08:25 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  The op's premise is theologically correct. Adam and Eve did not know about good and evil until they ate the forbidden fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That's why they were cast out of the garden. If they stayed, they would eat from the Tree of Life and God couldn't have them know about good and evil AND live forever, because that would make them gods as well, and we all know that YHWH is a jealous god and he wouldn't like having the competition!

I have to disagree. I believe it is theologically flawed.

Sin was already present before Adam and Eve (Satan). Adam and Eve had to be created sinful because of these two things:

1) Being amoral cannot produce morals. A shark isn't immoral because they "murder".

2) Adam and Eve could not have been created perfect because perfect cannot choose imperfect. If you are perfect, you cannot sin as it goes against what is your created nature.

You disagree because your views aren't orthodox.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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07-02-2012, 08:45 AM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2012 08:51 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:44 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  You disagree because your views are Biblically sound.

fix't

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07-02-2012, 08:47 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  But I accept that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, therefore, His morality cannot be judged.

This is my biggest problem with you believing what you believe. It's the epitome of delusion and I wish you could read your thoughts with an outsider's eye. Knowing you through the internet, I know you to be a good person who always seeks to do what is right for your self and other people. Your morals are better than the Bible's description of your god. It makes me sad that you would defend a mass murderer as being incapable of being judged for his atrocities to the universe.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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07-02-2012, 08:51 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:47 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(07-02-2012 08:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  But I accept that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, therefore, His morality cannot be judged.

This is my biggest problem with you believing what you believe. It's the epitome of delusion and I wish you could read your thoughts with an outsider's eye. Knowing you through the internet, I know you to be a good person who always seeks to do what is right for your self and other people. Your morals are better than the Bible's description of your god. It makes me sad that you would defend a mass murderer as being incapable of being judged for his atrocities to the universe.

I'm not defending His actions. But, I can't speak against them.

His plan takes precedence over humanity.

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07-02-2012, 08:53 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:51 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-02-2012 08:47 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(07-02-2012 08:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  But I accept that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, therefore, His morality cannot be judged.

This is my biggest problem with you believing what you believe. It's the epitome of delusion and I wish you could read your thoughts with an outsider's eye. Knowing you through the internet, I know you to be a good person who always seeks to do what is right for your self and other people. Your morals are better than the Bible's description of your god. It makes me sad that you would defend a mass murderer as being incapable of being judged for his atrocities to the universe.

I'm not defending His actions. But, I can't speak against them.

His plan takes precedence over humanity.

:Sadface:

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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07-02-2012, 08:53 AM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2012 09:02 AM by Zat.)
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  But I accept that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, therefore, His morality cannot be judged.

KC, you contradicted yourself at least 3 time in what I quoted!

(Oh, I forgot: god is OK with contradictions!)

That reminds me of a joke:

When god created nations it gave each a good characteristic.

Germans were good at technology, Italians at music, French at art, etc., etc.

Americans, of course became religious.

At the request of one of their presidents, god granted them a second: they became clever.

When a request for one more came in: another President wanted them to be honest as well, god agreed with a condition.

Ever since then: an American who is both religious and clever -- can not be honest; an American who is both religious and honest -- can not be clever; an American who is both honest and clever -- can not be religious!

Now who says that god doesn't have a sense of humour? Big Grin
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07-02-2012, 09:08 AM
 
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:31 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  God's morals are His own



I've seen godz resume. He has no morals.

Unless of course we are defining morals as:
Genocide
Murder
Abortion
Rape
Incest
slavery
.........do i really have to list ALL the stuff that WE call moral and HE violates?
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07-02-2012, 09:11 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 08:53 AM)Zat Wrote:  KC, you contradicted yourself at least 3 time in what I quoted!

I'm confused. How so?

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07-02-2012, 09:29 AM
RE: Was human created as a moral being?
(07-02-2012 09:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-02-2012 08:53 AM)Zat Wrote:  KC, you contradicted yourself at least 3 time in what I quoted!

I'm confused. How so?

Let's take it one at a time.

If he is omniscient then he can not be omnipotent because, if he knows everything that will unfold in the future, then he can not change a darn thing, so he can not be omnipotent.

The reverse is equally true: if he is omnipotent then he can not be omniscient because omnipotent means that he can change his mind and alter the course of the universe to what he had not intended before, but then it means that he wasn't omniscient to begin with.

And, if he is omnipresent then he can not be omnipotent because he has saturated the universe, elementary particle by elementary particle down to quarks and strings, unable to change/destroy anything without changing/destroying part if his being and I doubt he would want to do that.

Apart from these minor quibbles, what you said makes perfect sense! Tongue
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