Was my response to theist too harsh?
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22-04-2016, 01:01 AM
Was my response to theist too harsh?
So, last night I got blasted by a very religious old lady for saying that children are born atheists. She jumped halfway into a conversation I had with someone else and was not privy to the basis of our discussion.

She took absolute exception to my unholy "revelation". She proclaimed that due to the holy spirit, my findings were not only untrue, but bordered on total sacrilege. No matter how I tried explaining my view, she kept on pointing out that I had no proof. I have no problem with what she believes, but she got very aggregated and argumentative. I've learned to keep calm during these type of debates and her "outburst" just showed that you can't have a decent open minded discussion with someone not willing to listen to your opinion.

My approach was that when children are born, they have no knowledge of father christmas, the easter bunny or batman for that matter. Does this then not apply to any god and/or religion? If the holy spirit lives within the child, then surely religious instruction will not be needed? If the god she believed in was so powerful, how come only some children are born christian? Yet, when I pointed out that jesus asked for children to be brought to him for instruction, she said that the holy spirit was not active in "those" times yet. Only after his crucifixion was the holy spirit given to every newborn child.......
She walked away when I asked her about hindu children.....Smile

If a child is brought up not being taught (informed/told) about father christmas and his virtues, they will be none the wiser. But, just the mention of god/religion and the dynamic changes. Angry

Am I wrong? Dodgy

Spoon feeding in the long run, teaches nothing but the shape of the spoon! E.M. Forster
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22-04-2016, 01:05 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
No, you're right. Theists just don't like to hear that their "one true faith" is result of indoctrination and being born in particular place and family. It's nothing surprising though.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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22-04-2016, 01:53 AM (This post was last modified: 22-04-2016 02:01 AM by Silly Deity.)
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
You are absolutely spot on.

As Richard Dawkins says, "Would you ever speak of a baby's political beliefs? Hannah is a socialist baby, Mark a conservative. Who would ever dream of saying such a thing? What would you say if you read a demographic article which said something like this: “One in every three children born today is a Kantian Neo-platonist child. If the birth rate trends continue, Existentialist Positivists will be outnumbered by 2030.” Never mind the nonsensical names of philosophical schools of thought just invented. I deliberately chose surreal names so as not to distract from the real point. Religion is the one exception we all make to the rule: don’t label children with the opinions of their parents."

[Image: 25743973841_af4700e6d7_z.jpg]

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike
Excreta Tauri Sapientam Fulgeat (The excrement of the bull causes wisdom to flee)
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22-04-2016, 03:06 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
Where was the part when you cussed her out for being so damned rude ?

Still searching for the harshness.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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22-04-2016, 04:04 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(22-04-2016 01:01 AM)stcomza Wrote:  No matter how I tried explaining my view, she kept on pointing out that I had no proof.

Theists are frequently oblivious to irony. I always find it amusing when they demand proof before they disbelieve.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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22-04-2016, 04:13 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
Too harsh?

[Image: mild-jar.jpg]

You were positively mild. Don't sweat it.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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22-04-2016, 05:00 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(22-04-2016 01:01 AM)stcomza Wrote:  So, last night I got blasted by a very religious old lady for saying that children are born atheists. She jumped halfway into a conversation I had with someone else and was not privy to the basis of our discussion.

She took absolute exception to my unholy "revelation". She proclaimed that due to the holy spirit, my findings were not only untrue, but bordered on total sacrilege. No matter how I tried explaining my view, she kept on pointing out that I had no proof. I have no problem with what she believes, but she got very aggregated and argumentative. I've learned to keep calm during these type of debates and her "outburst" just showed that you can't have a decent open minded discussion with someone not willing to listen to your opinion.

My approach was that when children are born, they have no knowledge of father christmas, the easter bunny or batman for that matter. Does this then not apply to any god and/or religion? If the holy spirit lives within the child, then surely religious instruction will not be needed? If the god she believed in was so powerful, how come only some children are born christian? Yet, when I pointed out that jesus asked for children to be brought to him for instruction, she said that the holy spirit was not active in "those" times yet. Only after his crucifixion was the holy spirit given to every newborn child.......
She walked away when I asked her about hindu children.....Smile

If a child is brought up not being taught (informed/told) about father christmas and his virtues, they will be none the wiser. But, just the mention of god/religion and the dynamic changes. Angry

Am I wrong? Dodgy

She needs to be reminded of what her bi-bull says:

1 Timothy 2:11-12

11: A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
12: But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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22-04-2016, 05:02 AM
Was my response to theist too harsh?
(22-04-2016 01:53 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  You are absolutely spot on.

As Richard Dawkins says, "Would you ever speak of a baby's political beliefs? Hannah is a socialist baby, Mark a conservative. Who would ever dream of saying such a thing? What would you say if you read a demographic article which said something like this: “One in every three children born today is a Kantian Neo-platonist child. If the birth rate trends continue, Existentialist Positivists will be outnumbered by 2030.” Never mind the nonsensical names of philosophical schools of thought just invented. I deliberately chose surreal names so as not to distract from the real point. Religion is the one exception we all make to the rule: don’t label children with the opinions of their parents."

[Image: 25743973841_af4700e6d7_z.jpg]


It's funny that the type of folks here who argued that we don't know whether other animals have contemplated their existence, where they came from, seem to confidently assert that infants lack a belief.

Shouldn't we just be lacking a belief as to whether they do or do not believe in God/s, for the sake of being consistent.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-04-2016, 05:09 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
Children arent self aware until a certain age. How should they believe in your god if they dont know the concept of "me" yet?
If infants believe, what did you believe at this age and why?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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22-04-2016, 05:23 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(22-04-2016 01:01 AM)stcomza Wrote:  So, last night I got blasted by a very religious old lady for saying that children are born atheists. She jumped halfway into a conversation I had with someone else and was not privy to the basis of our discussion.

I'd have pointed out her rudeness of inserting herself into a private conversation, proselytizing her religious beliefs without asking permission and the hypocrisy of demanding proof when she herself followed a faith-based belief system. Quoting Timmy-boy is always good, as other posters noted.

As far as the atheism and babies question, I'm more ambivalent about that. It is my understanding that atheism is a response to a question. Infants cannot comprehend the question itself, let alone answer it. But technically, it is true.

Where did this conversation happen?

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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