Was my response to theist too harsh?
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24-04-2016, 08:10 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 06:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 05:47 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Chimpanzees and Gorillas who are taught sign language, never use it to ask us questions.
I don't recall what you told me, after awhile the various posters start to blur.

That's alright, we're all well aware how shite you are at this forum business.


(24-04-2016 06:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So i'll have you clarify your position, to see if it's different than the ones other atheists here have expressed.

Consistency question #3:

So in your view chimpanzee and Gorillas, are not able to contemplate their origin, and where they came from? Unlike other atheists here who suggested we don't know one way or the other whether they do or not. And you base this on the fact that even after learning sign language they haven't formed such questions with it?

For all intents and purposes, they do not appear to realize that other beings have other minds. If you can conceptualize that other minds exist outside your own, and that they might have access to information you do not have, then asking a question is how you'd get at such information. But if you cannot conceptualize other minds besides your own existing, how would you know to ask a question? Yours is the only mind, and if you don't know something, there isn't any other mind to ask.

If they possessed a theory of mind, and after being given the tools to form questions, it's a curious thing that they never do ask questions. Are they all just bashful? Too embarrassed by the naked apes to ask questions? Or do they not yet have the capacity to conceptualize that other minds exist?

My money is on the last one.


(24-04-2016 06:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you believe that human beings are the only animal, able to contemplate such questions? That we're unique in this regard?

Quote:I already told you, children do not form a theory of mind until around age 4

Actually, it's been observed in children a few months of age:

http://www.livescience.com/10924-7-month...oints.html

Okay, some can. That still doesn't get you back farther than that, or negate that many children still don't conceptualize the theory of mind until much later.

So if you have a 2 year old, and they fail the test, indicating that they do not yet conceptualize the existence of other minds and perspectives outside of their own; are you still claiming that they are theists? That a child not yet capable of conceptualizing a theory of mind can be a believer in a 'god' concept?

Cause if so, that sounds fucking daft.

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24-04-2016, 08:16 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
It's more than obvious that Alla, after posting repeatedly what amounts to syntactical games, does not fully understand what an atheist is, and why a new-born baby is, by definition, an atheist.

I understand that English is not Alla's first language, which may account for her lack of comprehension.

So... the "a" prefix adjoined to any word changes its meaning to its antonym.

Atheist = non believer,
asymmetric = not identical,
asexual = without sex,
ahedonism = absence of pleasure,
abiosphere = life unsupported,
amoral = no morality,
aspherical = not spherical, etc etc etc.

Therefore a baby, who is obviously a non-believer, must be atheistic. Unless of course Alla would like to claim that a baby is somehow born with an innate belief in a supernatural entity. Which evidence would be a first, and Nobel Prize worthy LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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24-04-2016, 08:31 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 05:57 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 05:46 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Both.

Why do people always assume that nature and the course there of isn't the product of a creative force?


You win pops. Let's instead assume it's all creative.

So what now? Where are all of the Ice Fairies who go around creating all of the icicles and snow flakes? Please point us to the Earth Golem who raised up the great Rockies, or the Water Djinn that carved out the Grand Canyon! Could you pick out of a lineup the particular extraterrestrial alien species that experiment on our ape ancestors and created homo sapiens?


If we're going to assume a creative force, why should your 'god' get the credit? Drinking Beverage

Stupid cunt...
Wt-?

All is of nature, nature and the laws that bind it are the product of a creative force.

That's all. I mentioned no particular deity. If you want to liken a creative or causal force to fairies and golems then that's your business I suppose. But don't conflate belief in a creator with belief in fairytails or magic. Man has devised theories about pretty much all of existence. Nature is proven to be depicted accurately through mathematic equations. If that doesn't mean intelligent design to you then, that too is your business. If you are a materialist then, again, your business. Not the most thought out theory, but whatever.

Peace
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24-04-2016, 08:44 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 05:29 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 05:27 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Earlier in this thread you have claimed that chimpsnsees have religion and babies are self aware from birth. It has been explained that in both cases where you provided links to support your position there has been statements that we "dont know" if this is the case (that there may be indications but for sure not enough conclusive evidence).
What is your position now?

Otherwise i dont see how you can say "we".

It's other here who claim that all infants are atheist, that they lack a belief in God, rather than taking the position that we don't know one way or the other. I'm just calling them out on this.

So you are arguing in this thread without having an actual position? Or are you just afraid your actual position will be called out for what it most probably is?

What a pathetic intellectual coward you are. Coming in here, making wild ass claims, posting links to stuff that you think supports your position, *dropping the mic* in a theatrical way as if you just finished something -or someone- , then get called out on the "we dont know" part of your links, and instead of admitting that you were wrong, you are going on like nothing happened and keep on asserting BS in the form of questions and will back up like the coward your are once somebody will call you out on this.

Q was mad, and so is Alla, but at least they have more balls than you.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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24-04-2016, 08:44 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 08:31 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  All is of nature, nature and the laws that bind it are the product of a creative force. [...]

Could you clarify what your bible says about gravity, and how exactly it works? Even today's scientists have no idea of its mechanics, but I'm assuming its putative creator—your god—must of course know. Can you direct me to a passage in the bible that explains gravity for me; how it was created, and how it works?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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24-04-2016, 08:57 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(23-04-2016 04:21 PM)Alla Wrote:  OK, but at least admit that they have NO IDEA that they are atheists. They don't even know what the heck that is.
Irrelevant and extraneous to the debate. Babies also have "no idea" whether they're male or female, Chinese or Swedish, Negro or Caucasian, fat or skinny etc. But they're guaranteed to be one or more of those things regardless of their lack of knowledge of the fact. So what?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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24-04-2016, 09:01 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 08:44 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 08:31 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  All is of nature, nature and the laws that bind it are the product of a creative force. [...]

Could you clarify what your bible says about gravity, and how exactly it works? Even today's scientists have no idea of its mechanics, but I'm assuming its putative creator—your god—must of course know. Can you direct me to a passage in the bible that explains gravity for me; how it was created, and how it works?
No, not really. Don't conflate the limitless knowledge of a singular creative force with the very very limited knowledge and or understanding of man. The bible and other religious texts are for moral guidance and the peaceable advancement of man and aren't here to explain away the musings of man in relation to the workings of the physical world. I find it odd how people want everything explained and hard lines drawn, yet still want freedom. Sorry I can't direct you towards the verses you seek. All does go along a preordained path though. Man seems to be the only entity or object with freedom to deviate from this path.

Peace
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24-04-2016, 09:20 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 09:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 08:44 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Could you clarify what your bible says about gravity, and how exactly it works? Even today's scientists have no idea of its mechanics, but I'm assuming its putative creator—your god—must of course know. Can you direct me to a passage in the bible that explains gravity for me; how it was created, and how it works?
No, not really. Don't conflate the limitless knowledge of a singular creative force with the very very limited knowledge and or understanding of man. The bible and other religious texts are for moral guidance and the peaceable advancement of man and aren't here to explain away the musings of man in relation to the workings of the physical world. I find it odd how people want everything explained and hard lines drawn, yet still want freedom. Sorry I can't direct you towards the verses you seek. All does go along a preordained path though. Man seems to be the only entity or object with freedom to deviate from this path.

Peace

the bible is for moral guidance and peace? yer a funny dude. i like your style.
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24-04-2016, 09:30 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 09:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 08:44 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Could you clarify what your bible says about gravity, and how exactly it works? Even today's scientists have no idea of its mechanics, but I'm assuming its putative creator—your god—must of course know. Can you direct me to a passage in the bible that explains gravity for me; how it was created, and how it works?
No, not really. Don't conflate the limitless knowledge of a singular creative force with the very very limited knowledge and or understanding of man. The bible and other religious texts are for moral guidance and the peaceable advancement of man and aren't here to explain away the musings of man in relation to the workings of the physical world. I find it odd how people want everything explained and hard lines drawn, yet still want freedom. Sorry I can't direct you towards the verses you seek. All does go along a preordained path though. Man seems to be the only entity or object with freedom to deviate from this path.

Peace

How is it that Christians claim that their bible asserts that the earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22) and that it hangs in space (Job 26:7), that the stars emit radio waves (Job 38:7), that the earth rotates (Luke 17:34–36) and the trade winds exist (Ecclesiastes 1:6) but not once even mention the force of gravity?

Surely something that without its existence, mankind (your god's creation) would not exist warranted a mention at the very least?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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24-04-2016, 10:19 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 08:31 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  All is of nature, nature and the laws that bind it are the product of a creative force.

Back again, and with the same grandiose claims and not a shred of evidence to back any of it up. Some things never change.

Knights who say NI!

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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