Was my response to theist too harsh?
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24-04-2016, 01:10 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
Ole whiskey,
In the Bible it is repeatedly stated that the law of Moses was manipulated. That is how I clarify your knowing, manipulative, seeming misconception. Little old to be playing the fool aren't you?

The bible and other texts do speak of natural things and assert there connection to GOD. But it isn't for the explaining away of all things physical. It is for the direction of man and the sake of man though is does often mention the direction of all existence. It goes into detail about nothing in a literal material way as time is not material and the tabernical is no longer of the hands of man, and really never was.

If we knew absolutely everything then we would not deviate from the right path and would have met our potential. But we have freedom and potential. Though knowing and doing are two different things I'm not sure that would be the case if literally all was known.

I try daily to deviate from my path. I doubt I'll shut up till I can't speak any longer. Deal with it.

Peace
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24-04-2016, 01:10 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 08:31 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 05:57 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You win pops. Let's instead assume it's all creative.

So what now? Where are all of the Ice Fairies who go around creating all of the icicles and snow flakes? Please point us to the Earth Golem who raised up the great Rockies, or the Water Djinn that carved out the Grand Canyon! Could you pick out of a lineup the particular extraterrestrial alien species that experiment on our ape ancestors and created homo sapiens?


If we're going to assume a creative force, why should your 'god' get the credit? Drinking Beverage

Stupid cunt...
Wt-?

All is of nature, nature and the laws that bind it are the product of a creative force.

That's all. I mentioned no particular deity. If you want to liken a creative or causal force to fairies and golems then that's your business I suppose. But don't conflate belief in a creator with belief in fairytails or magic. Man has devised theories about pretty much all of existence. Nature is proven to be depicted accurately through mathematic equations. If that doesn't mean intelligent design to you then, that too is your business. If you are a materialist then, again, your business. Not the most thought out theory, but whatever.

Peace

You think you're some spiritually insightful, deep thinker but you just sound like a faggoty hipster douche who lacks the necessary educating of intellectual subjects.
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24-04-2016, 01:16 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 08:31 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Wt-?

All is of nature, nature and the laws that bind it are the product of a creative force.

That's all. I mentioned no particular deity. If you want to liken a creative or causal force to fairies and golems then that's your business I suppose. But don't conflate belief in a creator with belief in fairytails or magic. Man has devised theories about pretty much all of existence. Nature is proven to be depicted accurately through mathematic equations. If that doesn't mean intelligent design to you then, that too is your business. If you are a materialist then, again, your business. Not the most thought out theory, but whatever.

Peace

You think you're some spiritually insightful, deep thinker but you just sound like a faggoty hipster douche who lacks the necessary educating of intellectual subjects.
Is that the best you can muster? Watch how whiskey operates. It's slightly more effective, or used to be.

I really couldn't care any less about what any person thinks of me. My actions speak for me, and I have one judge. It isn't you, so feel free to be as immature as possible and resort to attempted degradation of the spirit. It's a waste of your time. Ask any here. Whatever makes you feel better though. Real honorable cause.

Peace
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24-04-2016, 01:17 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 08:31 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  All is of nature, nature and the laws that bind it are the product of a creative force.

That's all. I mentioned no particular deity.

Nature and the universe around us are the product of natural forces that operate in a consistent manner. No creative force has ever been defined or evidenced outside of those natural forces.

(24-04-2016 08:31 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  But don't conflate belief in a creator with belief in fairytails or magic.

If you are professing a belief in the christian god of the bible, then you believe in magic.

(24-04-2016 08:31 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Man has devised theories about pretty much all of existence. Nature is proven to be depicted accurately through mathematic equations. If that doesn't mean intelligent design to you then, that too is your business. If you are a materialist then, again, your business. Not the most thought out theory, but whatever.

Our scientific theories have proven themselves accurate and extensive. While they are not now, and likely not ever, 100% complete, they are still better than anything yet produced. They also leave no room for your god.

Intelligent design as a "theory" was disproved and debunked in a court of law. It was revealed to be nothing but a poorly concealed lie of creationists. Stripped of any and all connections to science, intelligent design reverts to creationism. Creationism can be summed up in three words: "god did it".

Until you prove that, your claims mean nothing.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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24-04-2016, 01:28 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 09:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No, not really. Don't conflate the limitless knowledge of a singular creative force with the very very limited knowledge and or understanding of man.

Prove the existence of this singular creative force.
Prove the intelligence of this singular creative force.
Prove that this intelligent, existing singular creative force is aware of man and actually gives a fuck that we exist.

With "limitless knowledge" this singular creative force should have been able to create a method of conveying important information to it's creations.

(24-04-2016 09:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The bible and other religious texts are for moral guidance and the peaceable advancement of man and aren't here to explain away the musings of man in relation to the workings of the physical world.

The bible as a moral guide? You really wanna go there? heh.

(24-04-2016 09:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I find it odd how people want everything explained and hard lines drawn, yet still want freedom.

Why is that so hard to understand? And how does eternal servitude to an angry, jealous, vengeful god give you freedom?

(24-04-2016 09:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Sorry I can't direct you towards the verses you seek.

Then read the fucking book and find them. This aint a church. We take nothing for granted and any claims better be backed up.

(24-04-2016 09:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  All does go along a preordained path though. Man seems to be the only entity or object with freedom to deviate from this path.

If there is predestination, then there is no freedom to choose.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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24-04-2016, 01:37 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  In the Bible it is repeatedly stated that the law of Moses was manipulated.

The word of god manipulated? Answer me this:

If the five books of the Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) were manipulated, then how do you know the four gospels weren't manipulated as well?

And I'll give you a hint: "god told me" isn't an acceptable answer.

(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The bible and other texts do speak of natural things and assert there connection to GOD. But it isn't for the explaining away of all things physical. It is for the direction of man and the sake of man though is does often mention the direction of all existence. It goes into detail about nothing in a literal material way as time is not material and the tabernical is no longer of the hands of man, and really never was.

That paragraph makes absolutely no sense.

Was it copied from the bible?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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24-04-2016, 02:08 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 01:37 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  In the Bible it is repeatedly stated that the law of Moses was manipulated.

The word of god manipulated? Answer me this:

If the five books of the Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) were manipulated, then how do you know the four gospels weren't manipulated as well?

And I'll give you a hint: "god told me" isn't an acceptable answer.

(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The bible and other texts do speak of natural things and assert there connection to GOD. But it isn't for the explaining away of all things physical. It is for the direction of man and the sake of man though is does often mention the direction of all existence. It goes into detail about nothing in a literal material way as time is not material and the tabernical is no longer of the hands of man, and really never was.

That paragraph makes absolutely no sense.

Was it copied from the bible?
Mainly? The selfless conscience, or Christ consciousness, or Krishna consciousness, or the godhelm. Also reading many books as opposed to focusing on one allows for comparison and additional verification of the validity of the other writings and the conscience.

Peace
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24-04-2016, 04:44 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(22-04-2016 01:01 AM)stcomza Wrote:  So, last night I got blasted by a very religious old lady for saying that children are born atheists. She jumped halfway into a conversation I had with someone else and was not privy to the basis of our discussion.

She took absolute exception to my unholy "revelation". She proclaimed that due to the holy spirit, my findings were not only untrue, but bordered on total sacrilege. No matter how I tried explaining my view, she kept on pointing out that I had no proof. I have no problem with what she believes, but she got very aggregated and argumentative. I've learned to keep calm during these type of debates and her "outburst" just showed that you can't have a decent open minded discussion with someone not willing to listen to your opinion.

My approach was that when children are born, they have no knowledge of father christmas, the easter bunny or batman for that matter. Does this then not apply to any god and/or religion? If the holy spirit lives within the child, then surely religious instruction will not be needed? If the god she believed in was so powerful, how come only some children are born christian? Yet, when I pointed out that jesus asked for children to be brought to him for instruction, she said that the holy spirit was not active in "those" times yet. Only after his crucifixion was the holy spirit given to every newborn child.......
She walked away when I asked her about hindu children.....Smile

If a child is brought up not being taught (informed/told) about father christmas and his virtues, they will be none the wiser. But, just the mention of god/religion and the dynamic changes. Angry

Am I wrong? Dodgy

Of course you are right. She demanded proof? What proof does she have other than an ancient book? She broke into a conversation you were having? I would have said that's nice but I wasn't talking to you was I? How rude you are. Does your imaginary God approve of this behavior. go now and learn some manners.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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24-04-2016, 05:33 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Ole whiskey,
In the Bible it is repeatedly stated that the law of Moses was manipulated.
Except we know from several different fields of science, especially archeology, that Moses didn't exist. He's not a real person, and as not a real person he can't be given any laws, or create any of his own.

(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  The bible and other texts do speak of natural things and assert there connection to GOD.
Every single fucking work of fiction speaks of natural things. The bible however frequently gets things completely wrong.
Also you can't make a connection to a god that doesn't seem to exist, so what it tries to do is fucking irrelevant. You have to demonstrate that the thing exists before you can start assigning qualities to it. A thing you and every dumbfuck like you has failed to do.
Harry Potter speaks of natural things and asserts there is a connection to motherfuckin' wizards and shit. Whoopdie-fucking-do kid.

(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  But it isn't for the explaining away of all things physical.
Hahaha you wanted an example of your shifty bullshit here is a perfect one: you said it's not here to explain the works of the physical world and when I point out that it tries to just that MULTIPLE times you shift the goal posts and say it's not here to explain ALL of the physical world.

You're a lying, shifty, dishonest cunt.

(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It is for the direction of man and the sake of man though is does often mention the direction of all existence.
It's a bunch of shit stories written by ignorant men in the childhood of the species and this is why it gets SO MANY damn things wrong. There is a complete lack of anything divinely inspired, it offers no incites into the world that was not common place knowledge at the time in that area, and it has nothing new to say that is not just a base assertion with no evidence.
The Bible is a work of fiction, and as a man who has read a great deal of fiction it's shitty poorly written fiction.

(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It goes into detail about nothing in a literal material way
It does many many times, which you would know if you had ever actually read the fuckin' thing.

(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  and the tabernical is no longer of the hands of man, and really never was.
The Tabernacle didn't exist because we know the Exodus is fiction, the Jews were never slaves in Egypt, Moses is at best a amalgamation of multiple different people and at worst an entirely fictional character. Your point is thus irrelevant nonsense.

(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I try daily to deviate from my path.
Yet you just repeat the same lies, dishonest assertions, and stupid ignorance over and over and over and over.


(24-04-2016 01:10 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I doubt I'll shut up till I can't speak any longer.
And in all that time you will never say anything of worth at all. Bitch.


I'm still waiting to hear how selling your child to her rapist is good moral guidance?

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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24-04-2016, 05:36 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 02:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Mainly? The selfless conscience, or Christ consciousness, or Krishna consciousness, or the godhelm.
Oh lovely, one of the Spirit "science" cunts.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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