Was my response to theist too harsh?
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24-04-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 06:52 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 06:42 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I generally read the bible daily. I don't think I have read it in entirety yet, but I may have. I don't read in linear order or keep place so it's hard to be certain. If I haven't read it all then it's real close.

I didn't read what whiskey stated but I do not refute that history repeats itself, though I doubt that was what he was claiming. He was most likely claiming the depiction of Moses to be a copy, much like y'all enjoy saying Jesus is a copy. Nothing new to see here. I have a very good general knowledge of the guidance and morality set forth in the Bible though I cannot recite much without it in front of me.

And if I am unknowledgeable about scripture compared to those here then why not refute my stance with scripture? I mean; now is your chance. You claim I am both wrong and ill informed, so show your work. Prove it. You want me to shut up? It's simple; shut me up by backing up your statement. I'll be waiting but won't hold my breathe, sorry. As far as I am concerned; the Torah isn't admissible for this exercise.

Peace

How are you anyway? I hope you are well. How is treatment?

Why do we have to be enemies in order to discuss things?

You want me, a Baptist minister, to use scripture? Pops, you're out of your depth.

I am about to leave to go on a full day's journey anyway. So don't have time.

If you really want to get into scripture with me, start a thread on it. I know that book backwards. I also studied the early xians who wrote before the Jesus character was invented. Not one mentioned Jesus. Not at least until after circa AD 80 or so.

I read ancient literature for fun. Have been doing so now for 35 years. In May it'll be 36 years.
You can flap your jaw all you want. You claim I do not understand nor am familiar with scripture. So prove it instead of crawfishing.

Note: my understanding of scripture is not based on indoctrination of any organized religion so you may disagree.

Lastly, did you really just say you where an atheist Baptist minister? Surely I mis read...right?
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24-04-2016, 07:02 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 06:52 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 06:47 PM)julep Wrote:  Plenty of men willingly died for slavery's and Nazism's sake. Men right now, and women, of course, are dying for ISIS's sake. People die for what I am personally confident to judge are stupid/wrong/delusional/fucked up reasons all the time. Being willing to die for something has ZERO to do with the idea's truth or worthiness.
Sure people die for all sorts of reasons. And no doubt many are lost who fervently belief they are right. And yes, this is due to indoctrination, but not indoctrination alone. It is based in greed and hunger for power and attainment. And based on every scripture I have read, is not the direction of man by God's will.

The willingness to die in itself is not justification of belief. I agree.

Peace

Okay. In that case, your argument "How can you claim the life's work of men that they willingly died for to be simple delusion?" is moot, as you have agreed that people can wholeheartedly support and die for an unjust cause. The willingness to die part does not make the cause in itself more worthwhile.

I say: your religion is a delusion, as well as a distraction from real social wrongs that we should all be working to right. Frankly, if you want to martyr yourself in the name of god, I think that's both incorrect, since there is no god, and a waste of resources that could be used to better those around you. (Although as long as you didn't try to take other lives with your own, I would support your right to martyr yourself)
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24-04-2016, 07:03 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 06:59 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 06:52 PM)Banjo Wrote:  You want me, a Baptist minister, to use scripture? Pops, you're out of your depth.

I am about to leave to go on a full day's journey anyway. So don't have time.

If you really want to get into scripture with me, start a thread on it. I know that book backwards. I also studied the early xians who wrote before the Jesus character was invented. Not one mentioned Jesus. Not at least until after circa AD 80 or so.

I read ancient literature for fun. Have been doing so now for 35 years. In May it'll be 36 years.
You can flap your jaw all you want. You claim I do not understand nor am familiar with scripture. So prove it instead of crawfishing.

Note: my understanding of scripture is not based on indoctrination of any organized religion so you may disagree.

Lastly, did you really just say you where an atheist Baptist minister? Surely I mis read...right?
You want someone to prove something to you. . . Oh that's Rich.

Maybe first if you could try to prove anything to make that ever an endeavor worth anyone's time for you

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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24-04-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 07:02 PM)julep Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 06:52 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Sure people die for all sorts of reasons. And no doubt many are lost who fervently belief they are right. And yes, this is due to indoctrination, but not indoctrination alone. It is based in greed and hunger for power and attainment. And based on every scripture I have read, is not the direction of man by God's will.

The willingness to die in itself is not justification of belief. I agree.

Peace

Okay. In that case, your argument "How can you claim the life's work of men that they willingly died for to be simple delusion?" is moot, as you have agreed that people can wholeheartedly support and die for an unjust cause. The willingness to die part does not make the cause in itself more worthwhile.

I say: your religion is a delusion, as well as a distraction from real social wrongs that we should all be working to right. Frankly, if you want to martyr yourself in the name of god, I think that's both incorrect, since there is no god, and a waste of resources that could be used to better those around you. (Although as long as you didn't try to take other lives with your own, I would support your right to martyr yourself)
I try to help others in any way I can but don't like talking about it. I am not looking forward to death but will not hide from it. A willingness to die stands for something though not necessarily what is right. Living by what one knows is right and making it their life's work to guide others towards that righteous existence through all adversity unto death does testify that at very least ones devotion and perseverance is strong and how can ones determination be so strong without some real connection or meaning? On top of that; all texts of the faithful expound the same direction of man by the will of GOD. These things span time and continent, and relate to an inner reality in every thing.

So again, a willingness to die in itself does to denote truth, but coupled with the other things that I have tried to list it is telling t say the least, yet still only to a few perhaps.

Peace
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24-04-2016, 07:25 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 07:03 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 06:59 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You can flap your jaw all you want. You claim I do not understand nor am familiar with scripture. So prove it instead of crawfishing.

Note: my understanding of scripture is not based on indoctrination of any organized religion so you may disagree.

Lastly, did you really just say you where an atheist Baptist minister? Surely I mis read...right?
You want someone to prove something to you. . . Oh that's Rich.

Maybe first if you could try to prove anything to make that ever an endeavor worth anyone's time for you
I'm already established as not worth anyone's time here according to most yet they still reply. So the issue is credibility. He doesn't have to back his claims. Just hoped he wasn't a blatant liar, being sick and all, it's just not too cool, but to each his own I suppose. Perhaps that a how he gets his relief. I'm not going to judge.

It's not too possible to prove the existence or lack of existence in GOD.

It is very easy to prove that someone isn't knowledgeable in any particular written subject, as he has done.

Peace
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24-04-2016, 07:26 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2016 07:30 PM by Banjo.)
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 06:59 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Lastly, did you really just say you where an atheist Baptist minister? Surely I mis read...right?

Yep. I became a minister back in the 80's. I did it for fun. Special arrangements were made as I was a travelling musician. After two years study I took my test, passed, and was ordained. To me it was a joke. I then helped run a scripture based website that generated 6 million hits per month.

However I have little time now. I studied the KJV 1611.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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24-04-2016, 07:28 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 07:25 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It's not too possible to prove the existence or lack of existence in GOD.
Peace

Could you even prove that claim?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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24-04-2016, 07:40 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 07:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 07:02 PM)julep Wrote:  Okay. In that case, your argument "How can you claim the life's work of men that they willingly died for to be simple delusion?" is moot, as you have agreed that people can wholeheartedly support and die for an unjust cause. The willingness to die part does not make the cause in itself more worthwhile.

I say: your religion is a delusion, as well as a distraction from real social wrongs that we should all be working to right. Frankly, if you want to martyr yourself in the name of god, I think that's both incorrect, since there is no god, and a waste of resources that could be used to better those around you. (Although as long as you didn't try to take other lives with your own, I would support your right to martyr yourself)
I try to help others in any way I can but don't like talking about it. I am not looking forward to death but will not hide from it. A willingness to die stands for something though not necessarily what is right. Living by what one knows is right and making it their life's work to guide others towards that righteous existence through all adversity unto death does testify that at very least ones devotion and perseverance is strong and how can ones determination be so strong without some real connection or meaning? On top of that; all texts of the faithful expound the same direction of man by the will of GOD. These things span time and continent, and relate to an inner reality in every thing.

So again, a willingness to die in itself does to denote truth, but coupled with the other things that I have tried to list it is telling t say the least, yet still only to a few perhaps.

Peace

"A willingness to die stands for something though not necessarily what is right. Living by what one knows is right and making it their life's work to guide others towards that righteous existence through all adversity unto death does testify that at very least ones devotion and perseverance is strong and how can ones determination be so strong without some real connection or meaning?"

Again, you assent to one thing and then contradict it in the next phrase. You admit that people can be willing to die for something that is not right. But in the next sentence, you say, how can that determination be so strong without some real connection or meaning? That completely goes against what you say in sentence one.

Your enthusiasm/emotional identification regarding a cause has NOTHING to do with whether that cause is true. You can wholeheartedly and contentedly die for your belief in your god, whether that god exists or not. Just as you could wholeheartedly die for your belief in communism or slavery or racial superiority or monarchy or any idea.

The emotion attached to your belief is not evidence for the belief.
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24-04-2016, 07:51 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 07:40 PM)julep Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 07:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I try to help others in any way I can but don't like talking about it. I am not looking forward to death but will not hide from it. A willingness to die stands for something though not necessarily what is right. Living by what one knows is right and making it their life's work to guide others towards that righteous existence through all adversity unto death does testify that at very least ones devotion and perseverance is strong and how can ones determination be so strong without some real connection or meaning? On top of that; all texts of the faithful expound the same direction of man by the will of GOD. These things span time and continent, and relate to an inner reality in every thing.

So again, a willingness to die in itself does to denote truth, but coupled with the other things that I have tried to list it is telling t say the least, yet still only to a few perhaps.

Peace

"A willingness to die stands for something though not necessarily what is right. Living by what one knows is right and making it their life's work to guide others towards that righteous existence through all adversity unto death does testify that at very least ones devotion and perseverance is strong and how can ones determination be so strong without some real connection or meaning?"

Again, you assent to one thing and then contradict it in the next phrase. You admit that people can be willing to die for something that is not right. But in the next sentence, you say, how can that determination be so strong without some real connection or meaning? That completely goes against what you say in sentence one.

Your enthusiasm/emotional identification regarding a cause has NOTHING to do with whether that cause is true. You can wholeheartedly and contentedly die for your belief in your god, whether that god exists or not. Just as you could wholeheartedly die for your belief in communism or slavery or racial superiority or monarchy or any idea.

The emotion attached to your belief is not evidence for the belief.
I agree. Emotional significance or substance is an identifier of what is important for that I individual. If nothing has an emotional tie then nothing has any significance. Even those here are here for a reason and that reason alone s tied to emotion. If it wasn't then they wouldn't care enough to read or post.
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24-04-2016, 07:51 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
If we were born believing in "god", then only one religion would exist. That is the Overwhelming, irrefutable ( although the religious are far too indoctrinated and brain damaged by the disease of religion to admit to it or realize this) evidence that you are not born a Christian, you are born an Atheist.

Although, at the same time, it is a bit unfair to call a Baby an Atheist since they have no concept of anything in life outside of mommy, im hurt, im tired, I pooped, and I am hungry etc etc. Under the definition of what an Atheist is, they most definitely are one, but to call them an atheist is unfair to them as they have no concept of any of the ideas of religion or life for that matter. Instead of that Christian Baby or that Athiest baby..its really more accurate to call it a baby.


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