Was my response to theist too harsh?
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25-04-2016, 08:22 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 08:02 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Incrrect. I see religion as historical. I dislike Justinian for killing the sports fans in the arena, I dislike Hitler, I dislike Genghis Khan.

This is not a chip.

I do however feel pro life. Therefore xianity is wrong because it is anti life.

Christianity has not hurt me. I grew up an atheist. However I am very very well read. As a result I feel contempt for religion. Not angry. Just disrespectful.

That is NOT anger.

If it looks like anger, sounds like anger, smells like anger, it's probably anger.


Quote:I am angry with idiots like you, who come to where they are unwanted and try to push their BS on others.

Can you remember a single occasion where I tried to push christianity on you, passed you a Chick Track, told you that Jesus died for your sins bro, God loves you, or some shit like that? Probably not. Say what you want about me, but the last thing that can be said about me, is that I'm out here evangelizing, lol.

Quote:Why don't you simply fuck off you cunt?

Because I don't have to, and as a result you're gonna have to learn to deal with me, as much as I have to stomach you, but you're not that bad on most occasions.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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25-04-2016, 08:25 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 08:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(25-04-2016 08:02 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Incrrect. I see religion as historical. I dislike Justinian for killing the sports fans in the arena, I dislike Hitler, I dislike Genghis Khan.

This is not a chip.

I do however feel pro life. Therefore xianity is wrong because it is anti life.

Christianity has not hurt me. I grew up an atheist. However I am very very well read. As a result I feel contempt for religion. Not angry. Just disrespectful.

That is NOT anger.

If it looks like anger, sounds like anger, smells like anger, it's probably anger.


Quote:I am angry with idiots like you, who come to where they are unwanted and try to push their BS on others.

Can you remember a single occasion where I tried to push christianity on you, passed you a Chick Track, told you that Jesus died for your sins bro, God loves you, or some shit like that? Probably not. Say what you want about me, but the last thing that can be said about me, is that I'm out here evangelizing, lol.

Quote:Why don't you simply fuck off you cunt?

Because I don't have to, and as a result you're gonna have to learn to deal with me, as much as I have to stomach you, but you're not that bad on most occasions.


You push xianity in every post Tomasia.

You avoided my question. Why are you here on an atheist website. Seriously, why?

I may be angry with you. However I hold christianity, islam etc in contempt. There is a difference.

I joined this site to be amongst fellow atheists.

Why did you join???

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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25-04-2016, 08:35 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
10 minutes and counting, Still trying to figure out your justification???

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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25-04-2016, 09:12 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 08:25 AM)Banjo Wrote:  You push xianity in every post Tomasia.

I doubt that. I don't look at you, or others here as potential converts, or myself as some vessel to your salvation, to add you to my empty book of those I brought to Christ. You're just Banjo to me, a cranky, and eclectic anti-theist.

Quote:You avoided my question. Why are you here on an atheist website. Seriously, why?

Probably for the opposite reasons that you joined. You perhaps sought to find like minded folks, those who would accept you and like you. I find it liberating to be around individuals who don't like me, and who have no qualms in expressing that, who stand on opposites sides of the fence. I have nothing parallel to this in my personal life, so the friction is somewhat refreshing. Call it the need for opposition.

It gives me the ability to say as I wish, to plot and probe as wish, to pick apart as a I wish, without having to maintain the status quo, or avoiding offending someone. I doubt you'll relate to any of this.

Also because I'm a curious and intrusive sort of guy, and I find people here weird, in their self identifies, like I'm visiting another planet, observing an alien species. Folks who occupy a severely contrasting sense of identity, than my own.

I don't get off on making you angry, but I can't say I really care if I pissed you off either, it's not deliberate that much I can say. Call us incompatible personality types, a marriage guaranteed to end up in divorce.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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25-04-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 06:04 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-04-2016 05:57 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  When i consider that christianity was started just 2k years ago and compare it with ancient egyptian religion, then its kinda hard to take it seriously.
Well why don't you study the Bhagavad Gita? Hindu is the oldest religion still in practice. It actually has many similarities with the Bible. Ancient Egypt is interesting though.

Did i make claims about the existence of particular gods and the validity of religions? No.

You, however do all the time. Put up or shut up

Your childish argumentum ad populum (i predict it to come in less than a few pages) or the fallacy you commited by assuming age has anything to do with validity of any religion wont raise your zero credibility at all in case you are going to wonder.

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25-04-2016, 09:21 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 09:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(25-04-2016 08:25 AM)Banjo Wrote:  You push xianity in every post Tomasia.

I doubt that. I don't look at you, or others here as potential converts, or myself as some vessel to your salvation, to add you to my empty book of those I brought to Christ. You're just Banjo to me, a cranky, and eclectic anti-theist.

Quote:You avoided my question. Why are you here on an atheist website. Seriously, why?

Probably for the opposite reasons that you joined. You perhaps sought to find like minded folks, those who would accept you and like you. I find it liberating to be around individuals who don't like me, and who have no qualms in expressing that, who stand on opposites sides of the fence. I have nothing parallel to this in my personal life, so the friction is somewhat refreshing. Call it the need for opposition.

It gives me the ability to say as I wish, to plot and probe as wish, to pick apart as a I wish, without having to maintain the status quo, or avoiding offending someone. I doubt you'll relate to any of this.

Also because I'm a curious and intrusive sort of guy, and I find people here weird, in their self identifies, like I'm visiting another planet, observing an alien species. Folks who occupy a severely contrasting sense of identity, than my own.

I don't get off on making you angry, but I can't say I really care if I pissed you off either, it's not deliberate that much I can say. Call us incompatible personality types, a marriage guaranteed to end up in divorce.


Okay. However I sense an agenda. Rightly or wrongly.

I am anti theist in that I hate something like ISIS or the Taliban.

Knowing the history, it is hard to ignore. Take St Bartholomew's day, for example.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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25-04-2016, 10:29 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 07:03 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 08:10 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  That's alright, we're all well aware how shite you are at this forum business.



For all intents and purposes, they do not appear to realize that other beings have other minds. If you can conceptualize that other minds exist outside your own, and that they might have access to information you do not have, then asking a question is how you'd get at such information. But if you cannot conceptualize other minds besides your own existing, how would you know to ask a question? Yours is the only mind, and if you don't know something, there isn't any other mind to ask.

If they possessed a theory of mind, and after being given the tools to form questions, it's a curious thing that they never do ask questions. Are they all just bashful? Too embarrassed by the naked apes to ask questions? Or do they not yet have the capacity to conceptualize that other minds exist?

My money is on the last one.
You avoided directly answering the question.

No, it's just that your question was shite, and belied your fundamental misunderstanding of the topic at hand. I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that's not going to change any time soon.


(25-04-2016 07:03 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Others here have suggested that we do not know whether or not other animals are able to question their existence, or have contemplated where they came from. That they possibly can and have, but we don't know one way or the other. They lack a belief one way or the other on this question.

Are you of this view as well?

Or do you believe in the affirmative that they are not able to do so, that human beings are unique in this regard, compared to other animals.

Either you hold a positive belief here, or you refrain from doing so. So what is it? Come out with it.

Really? For all intents and purposes, the smartest animals besides ourselves are our great ape cousins. Of all of the other animals on Earth, they're the only other ones we've been able to teach the fundamentals of a shared means of communication, in the form of sign language. Bar none, those who have been taught sign language all appear to lack a theory of mind. If Chimpanzees, who share more than 98% of our DNA, are incapable of conceptualizing a theory of mind, what makes you think that other animals are capable of conceptualizing god?

There is simply no reason to think that any other animals are capable of these higher order thought processes. If one cannot at the very least conceptualize the existence of other minds, the concept of a 'god' is entirely nonsensical and meaningless to such a mind. A theory of mind is a baseline prerequisite for starting to conceptualize a deity, and we have no reason to think any animals besides ourselves have that capability.

Is this really that hard for you to grasp?


Wait, don't answer that, rhetorical question.



(25-04-2016 07:03 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 08:10 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Okay, some can. That still doesn't get you back farther than that, or negate that many children still don't conceptualize the theory of mind until much later.

So if you have a 2 year old, and they fail the test, indicating that they do not yet conceptualize the existence of other minds and perspectives outside of their own; are you still claiming that they are theists? That a child not yet capable of conceptualizing a theory of mind can be a believer in a 'god' concept?
I think you're conflating when we're able to observe signs in children showing that they can conceptualize other minds, and as to when they actually form this. There's no open and shut case here, very few facts. But it has been observed in children as early as a few months of age. Children a few months of age have even been observed recognizing moral distinctions as well.

Is a new born infant aware of his own mind, that he's trapped in it, does he recognize the reality in front of him, when he steps out the womb? Does he see it as purposeful, magical, enchanted, etc... Unless we've all become infant mind readers, those questions are not really known, they're just guessed.


You don't get to shorten the gap from 7 months to less than 7 without additional evidence, so back that assertion the fuck up.


Plus, once again, that doesn't negate that fact that plenty of children up to age 4 and older have been found to be lacking a theory of mind. They've taken the test and have utterly failed it.


So clearly, such capability is not universally innate. One imagines that it is something that requires practice and time to develop, much like learning to walk and talk; other skills that babies also don't know right out of the womb, in case you've forgotten. Once again, if a theory of mind is a prerequisite for conceptualizing anything close to what believers would consider to be 'god', then an infant cannot be a theist if they cannot conceptualize other minds existing. It seems quite clear that such skills are learned and not innate, much like learning a language. Therefore, newborns cannot believe in gods and are subsequently 'atheists' by every meaningful definition of the word.

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25-04-2016, 10:59 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(23-04-2016 06:52 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(23-04-2016 04:38 PM)Alla Wrote:  Fact: majority of atheists become theists.

Through indoctrination, misinformation, emotional abuse, and very frequently violence. Sure you wanna ring that particular bell shithead?
I agree with you, that many new-born atheists become theists through indoctrination. Some of them through misinformation, emotional abuse, and violence.

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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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25-04-2016, 11:13 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 05:46 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Of course I will focus and study faiths that are peacable prior to inquiring on any thing that isn't.
Which is LITERALLY a textbook definition of confirmation bias, you are actively avoiding reading anything but what you think supports you conclusion. Well...to be fair i should say TRYING to because....

(25-04-2016 05:46 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It's not that I disagree that there are non peaceful religions, I just have no real interest in them.
Yet you read the Old and New Testaments which are NOT peaceful either in their content (being pro rape, murder, torture, slavery, human sacrifice, and genocide) nor in the people they have produced....who have throughout history raped, murdered, enslaved, tortured, and committed mass genocide.

(25-04-2016 05:46 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I have studied paganism to some extent, but when they claim their religion was started in the 80s as opposed to prior to Christ, then it's kinda hard to take them seriously.
Modern Neo-paganism is relatively new, but paganism as a whole predates Christianity by thousands of years. Also so fucking what if it started in the 80's? Why would a religion started in the modern age with modern scientific equipment and modern education be LESS accurate than a religion started during the fucking bronze age by a bunch of people where steel weapons would blow their fuckin' minds? lol.

You ain't studied paganism worth a shit if you think it has it's roots int he 1980's. Fuckin' amateur.

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25-04-2016, 11:21 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 06:04 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Hindu is the oldest religion still in practice. It actually has many similarities with the Bible.
And many of them are bad pops.

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