Was my response to theist too harsh?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-04-2016, 11:29 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 06:47 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 10:29 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Bahahah go fuck your self Tom, tell me what the "generic god" was like in Mesopotamia around 8 thousand years ago and then tell me what it's like in Scandinavia 1500 years ago and lets see how generic it is.

Gods below your an idiot.

Please tell me more about Mesoptamian and early Scandinavian conceptions of a creator God.
So your response to my question was to ask me basically the same question and get me to do all the work...

[Image: days-of-not-taking-you-seriously-have-ce...middle.gif]

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2016, 11:40 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 08:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If it looks like anger, sounds like anger, smells like anger, it's probably anger.
Oh fun! I wanna play!

If it looks like ignorance, sounds like ignorance, smells like ignorance, it's probably ignorance. Wow, this is soooo much easier than actually supporting my position! Why do that when I can just ONCE AGAIN PRETEND TO KNOW THE MIND OF OTHERS BETTER THEN THEY DO!

Fuckin' 'ell Tom, you have like one bloody trick and it's so old you ignorant shit.


(25-04-2016 08:22 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Say what you want about me, but the last thing that can be said about me, is that I'm out here evangelizing, lol.
I disagree completely. Saddling up to an ATHEIST forum and endlessly talking about your god and your beliefs is already pushing the bounds into evangelizing. That you then add dishonest and evasive arguing into it like they all do pushes you over that edge and firmly into evangelizing territory. Add to the that your refusal to fuck off when asked because of it means that yes that is exactly what you are doing.

When you come to an ATHEIST forum to talk about how your religion is right and true and your god exists pushing Christianity is exactly what you are doing. Doing it dishonestly as well I might add.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like WhiskeyDebates's post
25-04-2016, 11:47 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 10:59 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(23-04-2016 06:52 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Through indoctrination, misinformation, emotional abuse, and very frequently violence. Sure you wanna ring that particular bell shithead?
I agree with you, that many new-born atheists become theists through indoctrination. Some of them through misinformation, emotional abuse, and violence.
Not many, ALL become theist through indoctrination and misinformation. ALL, not many, not some, ALL. Not just children but adults can also be indoctrinated as you yourself have so helpfully demonstrated.

You have no factual evidence for the veracity of your claims, so any children you raise will be indoctrinated and misinformed. Which is a form of emotional and psychological abuse.

ALL children that become atheists are indoctrinated because it's not like you can actually prove any of the bullshit you tell them is true.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2016, 11:53 AM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 11:47 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(25-04-2016 10:59 AM)Alla Wrote:  I agree with you, that many new-born atheists become theists through indoctrination. Some of them through misinformation, emotional abuse, and violence.
Not many, ALL become theist through indoctrination and misinformation. ALL, not many, not some, ALL. Not just children but adults can also be indoctrinated as you yourself have so helpfully demonstrated.

You have no factual evidence for the veracity of your claims, so any children you raise will be indoctrinated and misinformed. Which is a form of emotional and psychological abuse.

ALL children that become atheists are indoctrinated because it's not like you can actually prove any of the bullshit you tell them is true.
I think I can agree with that.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 10:29 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Really? For all intents and purposes, the smartest animals besides ourselves are our great ape cousins. Of all of the other animals on Earth, they're the only other ones we've been able to teach the fundamentals of a shared means of communication, in the form of sign language. Bar none, those who have been taught sign language all appear to lack a theory of mind. If Chimpanzees, who share more than 98% of our DNA, are incapable of conceptualizing a theory of mind, what makes you think that other animals are capable of conceptualizing god?

There is simply no reason to think that any other animals are capable of these higher order thought processes. If one cannot at the very least conceptualize the existence of other minds, the concept of a 'god' is entirely nonsensical and meaningless to such a mind. A theory of mind is a baseline prerequisite for starting to conceptualize a deity, and we have no reason to think any animals besides ourselves have that capability.

Is this really that hard for you to grasp?

The common view expressed by other atheists in regards to other animals conceptualizing such questions, is that we don’t know one way or the other. Folks here took issue when I suggested that human beings are unique from other animals in this regard. So when you disagree with them, I like there to be an explicit acknowledgement of that disagreement. So I can’t be accused of misinterpreting someone else’s views.

I’m interpreting your above statement to mean, that you hold in the affirmative that human beings are unique in regards to being able to ponder questions of their existence, where they came from, that other animals lack this capacity. And that all the other points you’ve made are being used in support of this position. That you disagree with other atheists here who claim we don’t know one way or the other if they do or not.

Quote:Plus, once again, that doesn't negate that fact that plenty of children up to age 4 and older have been found to be lacking a theory of mind. They've taken the test and have utterly failed it.

That presupposes that existence of tests that adequately can measure this or not. All we tend to have is some rough ability to gauge based on a series of physical responses whether they are aware of certain things like unfair behavior, a recognition of other bodies, etc…. This requires them to have better control of their physical functions, and our ability to translate them into beliefs.

If you believe a more reliable, and sound test exists for this, I would like to know what test I can use to find out what my infant nephew believes, whether he’s aware that he has a mother, that he has a mind, is aware that he exists, is alive, etc…

Following your mode of reasoning we might as well assume he lacks a beliefs on all these things, for the sheer fact that he’s unable to communicate these aspects to us on tests.

Quote:. Once again, if a theory of mind is a prerequisite for conceptualizing anything close to what believers would consider to be 'god', then an infant cannot be a theist if they cannot conceptualize other minds existing.

You don’t need much of a theory of mind at all. The one reality we’re the most intimate with, familiar with since conception is the mental one. Everything exists in our minds. In fact a belief in a physical world, requires us to be able to recognize a distinction between the mental and the physical. If you can’t separate your mind from the reality outside of it, than it’s all just mental representations. If you conceive or reality as one big mental image, than reality is theistic, a conception of a mind. Any conception of reality that involves even a vague teleological form, is a theistic conception.

This is not to argue that infant conceive of the world in such away, but that we have no way to test whether they do or not, it could be possible that they do. In fact we do know that children as early as we can detect tend to perceive reality teleologically, even when raised in non-religious homes.

We rely primary on what we can deem between the infants physical expressions, to gleam what’s going in their minds. This may be the only type of test we have, but not necessarily adequate to claim with any real certainty the extent of how an infant sees reality. The problems with this should be apparent, perhaps a reading of Thomas Nagel’s “What is it like to be a Bat”, is in order.

You seem to be confident otherwise, but until you can offer me a test as to whether or not an infant is aware of his own mind, that whether he knows he exists, that he lives, that he feels, etc…. you’re confidence remains entirely unwarranted.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2016, 01:01 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 11:53 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(25-04-2016 11:47 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Not many, ALL become theist through indoctrination and misinformation. ALL, not many, not some, ALL. Not just children but adults can also be indoctrinated as you yourself have so helpfully demonstrated.

You have no factual evidence for the veracity of your claims, so any children you raise will be indoctrinated and misinformed. Which is a form of emotional and psychological abuse.

ALL children that become atheists are indoctrinated because it's not like you can actually prove any of the bullshit you tell them is true.
I think I can agree with that.
I'm glad you agree that you and every other theists belief is a product of abuse in the form of the indoctrination of misinformation and not some divine revelation or something useful like facts or reason.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2016, 05:42 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 06:04 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  [...]Well why don't you study the Bhagavad Gita? Hindu is the oldest religion still in practice. It actually has many similarities with the Bible. Ancient Egypt is interesting though.

Strictly speaking, Hindu is henotheistic, which means that although one worships a particular god, one does so without disbelieving in the existence of other gods. So although the Gita may indeed have "many similarities" with your bible, it also has one critical and contradictory viewpoint—that of a singular deity.

Anyway... You seem to be forgetting that what came to be known as "atheism" is as old as many religions, and certainly a lot older than the New Testament.

In the East, a contemplative life not centred around the notion of a deity began in the 6th century BCE with the rise of Jainism, Buddhism, and Taoism. Also around the 6th century BCE, Greek philosophers attempted to explain the world in terms of the processes of nature rather than by deity-driven mythological accounts.

And in the 5th century BCE, the Greek philosopher Diagoras of Melos was recorded as being the first "atheist". The Christian apologist Athenagoras wrote (c.150CE) of Diagoras that he "openly declared that there was no God at all".

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes SYZ's post
25-04-2016, 05:49 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 07:03 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  [...] I think you're conflating when we're able to observe signs in children showing that they can conceptualize other minds, and as to when they actually form this. There's no open and shut case here, very few facts. But it has been observed in children as early as a few months of age. Children a few months of age have even been observed recognizing moral distinctions as well.

Can you please provide a citation for this claim?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2016, 06:00 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(24-04-2016 11:12 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(24-04-2016 06:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  How can you claim the life's work of men that they willingly died for to be simple delusion? You don't believe it so how can you judge it's veracity?

[Image: my-life_1993925c.jpg]

These people died for a delusion, you stupid fuck.


If something's veracity isn't even testable (i.e. it's not falsifiable), then it's not worth believing in. Strength of a belief should be scaled to the strength of the evidence in support of it. Instead you'd rather jump all in, without evidence, and expect everyone else to just acquiesce to your assumptions instead of challenging them? Fuck that!
Not at all. Though I am fully convinced of my beliefs for my own reasons, I in no way ask or expect any to take what I say for granted, but attempt to encourage people to find out for themselves.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2016, 08:12 PM
RE: Was my response to theist too harsh?
(25-04-2016 06:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Not at all.
There is that selective memory of yours pops, you stated when you first got here that it was up to US to prove YOU wrong. Your default position was that you are right and that you remain right unless we can prove you wrong.

(25-04-2016 06:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Though I am fully convinced of my beliefs for my own reasons..
Right, and those are delusion, poor education, and a complete lack of critical thinking skills, and more than likely a mental disorder if your attempt at murder is any indication. We all know this.

(25-04-2016 06:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  but attempt to encourage people to find out for themselves.
We have, that's why we reject your silly nonsense. You have provided no evidence and no compelling arguments, all you have presented is a bunch of nonsense that lives in your head, assertion, and bowl and bowls of word salad.

We have found out for ourselves: we have found out your full of shit.

(25-04-2016 06:00 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
More word salad. Throwing together a bunch of pleasant sounding words that don't have any actual value as presented.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like WhiskeyDebates's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: