Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
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03-05-2016, 12:07 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(03-05-2016 11:22 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 09:41 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Those statements effectively invalidate christianity, islam, judasim, and mormonism and most other older, established religions.

At the same time, someone like David Koresh or Jim Jones would have supreme authority.
I agree with you. the only people who can understand particular Word of God correctly are
1)those who wrote that particular Word of God
2)those who write other Words of God and whom God gives an authority and a gift to understand His Words they(prophets) didn't write.
ONLY PROPHETS OF GOD have this authority - to write and to interpret Words of God.
Jewish people do not have prophets for thousand of years among them.

P.S. Mormons have God's prophets among them. 15 of them
It's sad you still let the power above you profess some elite knowledge and actually succumb to their claims.

Your happiness is more your own doing, not the trusting or aid of the special prophets who get to benefit in this only conformable type of life by propagandizing.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-05-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(03-05-2016 09:23 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 09:15 AM)Alla Wrote:  I didn't say that prophets of God were non-Jewish.
All I said is that PROPHETS of God wrote the books. Those are THEIRS books. Only prophets who actually WROTE their own books have an understanding(gift from God) and AUTHORITY to INTERPRET them.
Those who are NOT prophets do NOT have authority from God to interpret books OF THE PROPHETS.
Jewish people do not have this authority . There are NO PROPHETS among them
That doesn't answer who the Jewish prophets were or who wrote what?

But you think they have zero fallability simple because they proclaim gods prophecy? Why do you trust any authority as perfect still? Didn't you learn how they're just telling you that because you're being gullible when you have the ability to find this happiness all on your own.

The prophets Alla is referring to are Moses and Isiaah etc. I have a copy of the book of Moron here, in fact they should be knocking my door any minute....poor lambs to the slaughter.
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03-05-2016, 01:57 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(03-05-2016 08:17 AM)Alla Wrote:  
CosmicRaven Wrote:In Jewish belief, God gave them those scriptures. You don't think they'd understand their own scriptures?
Of course, they understood and understand something in their scriptures. But they also don't understand many things. Isn't it very human thing? There is something we understand correctly but something we don't understand.
Those who have AUTHORITY from God to WRITE the scriptures have THE GIFT from God to INTERPRET them correctly.
Jews didn't have and still do not have authority to write the scriptures, so, they teach their own interpretations. Mortals misunderstand many, many things.
CosmisRaven Wrote:Also, Jesus, as described in the Christian Bible, doesn't even fulfill messianic prophecy.
Jews were rejecting and killing their prophets long before Jesus was born. They were teaching their own interpretations of the scriptures for a long time.
While Jews didn't have prophets they made up many things. For example, they made up a doctrine that their God is "infinite God" and that He created space and time. NO PROPHET of their God taught such thing.
They misunderstood God's word about Messiah.

Ugh, what a steaming pile of antisemitism. I wonder if it's just Alla or Mormons in general.
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04-05-2016, 09:42 AM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(03-05-2016 09:04 AM)Alla Wrote:  Aliza who is Jewish said that according to her religion God is infinite and that He created space and time. I asked her: "what is the name of the prophet of God who said this?" Till this day I am waiting for an answer.

I always try to make sure to preface my statements about Judaism by saying, “according to Judaism…” I do this because I know that the readers on this forum don’t share my beliefs. Starting a statement about one’s religious beliefs as though they were indisputable fact is rude, off-putting, dismissive of other’s ideas, and closed-minded.

When I say “according to Judaism,” I’m not making a concession for my beliefs. I’m making allowances that maybe you won’t see things my way, and I'm trying to convey that that’s okay. There can be more truths in the world than just mine. I’m fine with that.

According to absolutely every source in Jewish teaching, all prophets, all writings, all teachings, absolutely everything across the board, our concept of G-d is that G-d is an incorporeal being with no body, no limiting elements what-so-ever. We believe that G-d is eternal, and infinite. G-d is not male…we only say “he” because that’s our how language works. There are even times when G-d is referred to in the feminine. G-d has no gender, no arms, no eyes, no mouth… nothing at all that would limit him.

My religion is not for you. It’s for the Jewish people. Ignorant Jews and Pagan Gentiles took the Hebrew bible (as translated into Greek), and formed the foundation of your religion from it. In reading through the Torah and the New Testament, we see that G-d did not give it to the Christians in a grand display of communicating to every single member of their religion as he did with the Jewish people on Mt. Sinai. The Christians simply appropriated someone else’s book, a book that was mistranslated from the get-go, and understood only on that simple, mistranslated interpretation.

Sadly, they didn’t take all of Judaism, though, because if they did, maybe there wouldn’t be as many screwed up misunderstandings as there are today. The Talmud is every bit as important to Judaism as the Torah is, and also as the prophets and writings are. The Talmud is where we learn how to preform circumcision, how to slaughter animals, which birds we can and cannot eat. Elaborations on all of the lines in the Torah are given in the Talmud. Torah cannot be followed or understood in accordance with Jewish teachings without our traditions and these detailed explanations.

I don’t care if you believe in our way of thinking or not. But since you asked, I’ll tell you that the concept of an eternal G-d has been a cornerstone of Jewish thinking dating back to every written text attributed to my religion. It’s the most basic, fundamental principle in our faith, and removing this concept would be akin to trying to remove Jesus from Christianity, or needing to explain to people that Christians do think Jesus was the Jewish messiah. The fact that I have to explain this to you shows how very little you understand about Judaism –The religion your religion grew out of. But then, look at how different Mormonism is from Catholicism and from Islam. All of these religions grew out of mine. Why didn’t G-d reveal the same message to them? Why didn’t G-d reveal even a similar message to them? Don’t answer that.

Which prophets discuss the eternal nature of G-d? All of them. In addition to that, every scholar, every sage, and every single Jew with throughout our history understands that Judaism holds that there is a single, eternal and infinite G-d.

I’m very sorry, but at this time, I’m not going to discuss this topic further with you. I’ve given you my position, you’re welcome to take it or leave it.
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04-05-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(04-05-2016 09:42 AM)Aliza Wrote:  According to absolutely every source in Jewish teaching, all prophets, all writings, all teachings, absolutely everything across the board, our concept of G-d is that G-d is an incorporeal being with no body, no limiting elements what-so-ever. We believe that G-d is eternal, and infinite. G-d is not male…we only say “he” because that’s our how language works. There are even times when G-d is referred to in the feminine. G-d has no gender, no arms, no eyes, no mouth… nothing at all that would limit him.

Aliza, would you say that this reflects CURRENT thought about the Jewish god concept?

Based upon the limited OT writings in Christianity, it portrays god as a cosmic being in Genesis 1 and then portrays god as talking and walking with Adam in the garden in chapter 2, a very physical being that even the priests writing back then had sharp disagreements upon as we see these two different god concepts portrayed in several places in the OT.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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04-05-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(30-04-2016 02:23 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  I dunno. What do you guys think? Was the Bible meant to be read thousands of years on? Why wouldn't God come and make a modern Bible for us?

It depends on what you mean by "meant for us". There are several ways to parse this:
  • God is real, the Bible is life's instruction book, and yes, it is meant for us. There are lots of problems with this, mostly: where is the evidence for God, and why oh why all the mental gymnastics!?
  • God is real, but the Bible was written by humans. For unstated reasons, God let humans write a rather fucked up Bible. He takes a rather absent role here, which I guess is pretty consistent with a lot of other aspects of God in the really real world. This begs the questions: How can we know what's true? Why do we care about this God?
  • God was made by people, and the people who wrote the other books really didn't comprehend what the future held, so there's no reason to think it is meant for anything other than the time it was written. My money is on this one.
  • God is a trickster God, and the Bible is meant for us for the lulz. God damn if this one isn't bleak, but it'd explain a lot...
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04-05-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(04-05-2016 10:06 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(30-04-2016 02:23 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  I dunno. What do you guys think? Was the Bible meant to be read thousands of years on? Why wouldn't God come and make a modern Bible for us?

It depends on what you mean by "meant for us". There are several ways to parse this:
  • God is real, the Bible is life's instruction book, and yes, it is meant for us. There are lots of problems with this, mostly: where is the evidence for God, and why oh why all the mental gymnastics!?
  • God is real, but the Bible was written by humans. For unstated reasons, God let humans write a rather fucked up Bible. He takes a rather absent role here, which I guess is pretty consistent with a lot of other aspects of God in the really real world. This begs the questions: How can we know what's true? Why do we care about this God?
  • God was made by people, and the people who wrote the other books really didn't comprehend what the future held, so there's no reason to think it is meant for anything other than the time it was written. My money is on this one.
  • God is a trickster God, and the Bible is meant for us for the lulz. God damn if this one isn't bleak, but it'd explain a lot...

Yup. I meant the third one you have there.
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04-05-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(04-05-2016 10:09 AM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  Yup. I meant the third one you have there.

Then my answer would be "it wasn't made with other times in mind. They probably thought what they were writing down would be applicable forever".

We run into this with lots of things. Take people's view on various parts of the constitution.
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04-05-2016, 11:13 AM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(04-05-2016 09:42 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 09:04 AM)Alla Wrote:  Aliza who is Jewish said that according to her religion God is infinite and that He created space and time. I asked her: "what is the name of the prophet of God who said this?" Till this day I am waiting for an answer.


, our concept of G-d is that G-d is an incorporeal being with no body, no limiting elements what-so-ever. We believe that G-d is eternal, and infinite. G-d is not male…we only say “he” because that’s our how language works. There are even times when G-d is referred to in the feminine. G-d has no gender, no arms, no eyes, no mouth… nothing at all that would limit him.

So, then why does the bible say we were made by god in god's own image? We have genders and bodies. So, are you saying the bible is wrong? I am pretty sure your book says the same thing.
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04-05-2016, 03:09 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(04-05-2016 11:13 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(04-05-2016 09:42 AM)Aliza Wrote:  , our concept of G-d is that G-d is an incorporeal being with no body, no limiting elements what-so-ever. We believe that G-d is eternal, and infinite. G-d is not male…we only say “he” because that’s our how language works. There are even times when G-d is referred to in the feminine. G-d has no gender, no arms, no eyes, no mouth… nothing at all that would limit him.

So, then why does the bible say we were made by god in god's own image? We have genders and bodies. So, are you saying the bible is wrong? I am pretty sure your book says the same thing.
I'm not answering for Aliza, but chiming in as a former kabbalist. The answer/excuse is the image is not the physical image but a spiritual blueprint. Think of it more of a mirror image of the spirit nodes or points, called aspects or sephiroth.

Yeah, I know... Looking back, I believed some really weird crap. Smile
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