Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
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04-05-2016, 04:30 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
Aliza Wrote:According to absolutely every source in Jewish teaching, all prophets, all writings, all teachings, absolutely everything across the board, our concept of G-d is that G-d is an incorporeal being with no body, no limiting elements what-so-ever. We believe that G-d is eternal, and infinite. G-d is not male…we only say “he” because that’s our how language works. There are even times when G-d is referred to in the feminine. G-d has no gender, no arms, no eyes, no mouth… nothing at all that would limit him.

You included " all prophets and all writings".
what are the names of the prophets who were teaching that God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob is infinite, with no body, with no gender, no arms, no eyes, no mouth.
This is ALL I want to know at this time.

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05-05-2016, 08:54 AM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(04-05-2016 09:55 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(04-05-2016 09:42 AM)Aliza Wrote:  According to absolutely every source in Jewish teaching, all prophets, all writings, all teachings, absolutely everything across the board, our concept of G-d is that G-d is an incorporeal being with no body, no limiting elements what-so-ever. We believe that G-d is eternal, and infinite. G-d is not male…we only say “he” because that’s our how language works. There are even times when G-d is referred to in the feminine. G-d has no gender, no arms, no eyes, no mouth… nothing at all that would limit him.

Aliza, would you say that this reflects CURRENT thought about the Jewish god concept?

Based upon the limited OT writings in Christianity, it portrays god as a cosmic being in Genesis 1 and then portrays god as talking and walking with Adam in the garden in chapter 2, a very physical being that even the priests writing back then had sharp disagreements upon as we see these two different god concepts portrayed in several places in the OT.

Current, and ancient. The Jews have always maintained that G-d has no body, no form, no eyes, mouth, ears or arms. Nothing. All references to a physical G-d with parts are metaphorical and this has always been the view held by the Jewish people.

The story of creating man in G-d's "image" does not refer to a physical image, and never has within Judaism. To the Jews, it has always meant that man has the ability to reason and grow intellectually.
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05-05-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(30-04-2016 09:10 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(30-04-2016 02:23 PM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  Why wouldn't God come and make a modern Bible for us?

He did. It calls BOOK OF MORMON. It is ANOTHER Testament of Jesus Christ.
Book of Mormon was written for us. For our times, our generations.

Hardly. Most of the book of mormon takes places years and years before ol' joe smith cooked it up.
You could argue that the revelations he supposedly had would be more relevant to our age, but even that is a stretch.
I remember when i attended the LDS church, we were always told that we were the of the last generation, but it always had me wondering, how many generations since ol' joe smith were told they were the last? I would be fairly certain that the early mormons felt the second coming was just as immanent as any of the other newer sects at the time, which were springing up all around where ol' joe smith sprung up his.
I challenge you or anyone to find any scripture in any holy book that points to specifically this generation, or even one that is yet to come, as being the target audience for that holy book.
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05-05-2016, 01:04 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(03-05-2016 07:27 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 07:11 AM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  Also, Jesus, as described in the Christian Bible, doesn't even fulfill messianic prophecy.

The Old Testament prophesies that the Messiah would suffer and die to atone for sins. One example of this kind of prophesy is Isaiah 53. Jesus did fulfill these prophecies.

It also prophesies that the Messiah will set up a kingdom that will rule the entire world. Jesus will fulfill these prophesies when he returned.

The Jews didn't recognize Jesus as their Messiah because they focused on the prophecies of his ruling and overlooked the prophecies of his suffering and death.

Ehh not really.

Aliza can correct me if I'm wrong but the word "Moshiach" is never translated as "Messiah," but as "anointed. Since the concept of a Messiah is one that was given by God to the Jews, Jewish tradition is best qualified to describe and recognize the expected Messiah. This tradition has its foundation in numerous biblical references, many of which are cited below. Judaism understands the Messiah to be a human being (with no connotation of deity or divinity) who will bring about certain changes in the world and who must fulfill certain specific criteria before being acknowledged as the Messiah.

Being considered "the guy" to correct the world's problems you don't just to "fulfill" prophecy and call it a day.

Let's say you hired a guy that says he's contractor to build a new wing on your house. You pay him and he knocks down your wall then says he'll be back tomorrow to finish the job. He dose not come back the next day. Or even the next 2 days. 2 weeks, 2 years, 2 decades and he never returns. Would you say that the contractor has fulfilled his end of the bargen? How long is it a good time before you think this guy wasn't a contractor. Or even capable of doing the job. Is it best to wait while your home is exposed to the elements? Or would you turn to someone else that would finish the job properly?

1) He must be Jewish.
Deuteronomy 17:15
Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the Lord thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.

Numbers 24:17
I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah
Genesis 49:10
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

and a direct male descendant of both King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalm 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18)

3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12)

4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)

5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)

6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one God. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)

Now i'm a terrible procrastinator. But I would see around 2,000 years as being a major set back.

“While traveling through a forest, a person noticed a circle marked on a tree with an arrow shot perfectly into the center. A few yards away he noticed several more targets, each with arrows in the center. Later, he met the talented archer and he asked him, "How did you become such an expert that you always get your arrows into the center of the bull's-eye?" "It's not difficult," responded the archer, "First I shoot the arrow and then I draw the circle."

Even if the story did say he fulfilled these profecys. It's very easy to tie a story up in a little bow after previous story's have already been written.

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05-05-2016, 03:50 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(05-05-2016 01:04 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  
(03-05-2016 07:27 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The Old Testament prophesies that the Messiah would suffer and die to atone for sins. One example of this kind of prophesy is Isaiah 53. Jesus did fulfill these prophecies.

It also prophesies that the Messiah will set up a kingdom that will rule the entire world. Jesus will fulfill these prophesies when he returned.

The Jews didn't recognize Jesus as their Messiah because they focused on the prophecies of his ruling and overlooked the prophecies of his suffering and death.

Ehh not really.

Aliza can correct me if I'm wrong but the word "Moshiach" is never translated as "Messiah," but as "anointed. Since the concept of a Messiah is one that was given by God to the Jews, Jewish tradition is best qualified to describe and recognize the expected Messiah. This tradition has its foundation in numerous biblical references, many of which are cited below. Judaism understands the Messiah to be a human being (with no connotation of deity or divinity) who will bring about certain changes in the world and who must fulfill certain specific criteria before being acknowledged as the Messiah.

Being considered "the guy" to correct the world's problems you don't just to "fulfill" prophecy and call it a day.

Let's say you hired a guy that says he's contractor to build a new wing on your house. You pay him and he knocks down your wall then says he'll be back tomorrow to finish the job. He dose not come back the next day. Or even the next 2 days. 2 weeks, 2 years, 2 decades and he never returns. Would you say that the contractor has fulfilled his end of the bargen? How long is it a good time before you think this guy wasn't a contractor. Or even capable of doing the job. Is it best to wait while your home is exposed to the elements? Or would you turn to someone else that would finish the job properly?

1) He must be Jewish.
Deuteronomy 17:15
Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the Lord thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.

Numbers 24:17
I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah
Genesis 49:10
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

and a direct male descendant of both King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalm 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18)

3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12)

4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)

5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)

6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one God. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)

Now i'm a terrible procrastinator. But I would see around 2,000 years as being a major set back.

“While traveling through a forest, a person noticed a circle marked on a tree with an arrow shot perfectly into the center. A few yards away he noticed several more targets, each with arrows in the center. Later, he met the talented archer and he asked him, "How did you become such an expert that you always get your arrows into the center of the bull's-eye?" "It's not difficult," responded the archer, "First I shoot the arrow and then I draw the circle."

Even if the story did say he fulfilled these profecys. It's very easy to tie a story up in a little bow after previous story's have already been written.

The only thing that apply to Jesuuusss is that he was Jewish. Apart from that he acomplished nothing. Jesus hasn't a human father ( according to the gospels ) and tribal affiliation is determined by the father side. The return of all Jews tribes to Israel ? Nope . Actually the opposite happened in the first century times. The rebuild of the temple ? Nope the second temple was destroyed in those times. World peace ? Obviously that never happened and still isn't happening. All people of the world acknowledging the Jewish God as the real God ? That's a big Nope. Also the messiah is supposed to get married and have children. So yeah , the claim that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah is a big joke.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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05-05-2016, 07:15 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2016 07:24 PM by Alla.)
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(05-05-2016 08:54 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Current, and ancient. The Jews have always maintained that G-d has no body, no form, no eyes, mouth, ears or arms. Nothing. All references to a physical G-d with parts are metaphorical and this has always been the view held by the Jewish people.

The story of creating man in G-d's "image" does not refer to a physical image, and never has within Judaism. To the Jews, it has always meant that man has the ability to reason and grow intellectually.
NO PROPHET of God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob ever claimed this. NEVER, EVER. NO PROPHET of God.
Where did Jewish learned men get their ideas? Smile

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05-05-2016, 07:48 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(05-05-2016 07:15 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(05-05-2016 08:54 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Current, and ancient. The Jews have always maintained that G-d has no body, no form, no eyes, mouth, ears or arms. Nothing. All references to a physical G-d with parts are metaphorical and this has always been the view held by the Jewish people.

The story of creating man in G-d's "image" does not refer to a physical image, and never has within Judaism. To the Jews, it has always meant that man has the ability to reason and grow intellectually.
NO PROPHET of God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob ever claimed this. NEVER, EVER. NO PROPHET of God.
Where did Jewish learned men get their ideas? Smile

You know to back that with knowledge you're claiming to know everything all of these prophets claimed... And their claims would be more than only what they "allegedly wrote" themselves.

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05-05-2016, 08:22 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
Let Jewish learned men show that THEIR PROPHETS were teaching that God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob has no body and that He is infinite.

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05-05-2016, 08:34 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(05-05-2016 07:15 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(05-05-2016 08:54 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Current, and ancient. The Jews have always maintained that G-d has no body, no form, no eyes, mouth, ears or arms. Nothing. All references to a physical G-d with parts are metaphorical and this has always been the view held by the Jewish people.

The story of creating man in G-d's "image" does not refer to a physical image, and never has within Judaism. To the Jews, it has always meant that man has the ability to reason and grow intellectually.
NO PROPHET of God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob ever claimed this. NEVER, EVER. NO PROPHET of God.
Where did Jewish learned men get their ideas? Smile

Shut the fuck up, Alla. No one gives a rat's fucking ass what you think. Did you misunderstand when I said that I wasn't going to be discussing this with you any further?

I do not want to talk to you at this time. You will not be getting a more detailed answer from me on this subject. Leave me alone.
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05-05-2016, 08:35 PM
RE: Was the Bible even intended to be used by us?
(05-05-2016 08:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  Let Jewish learned men show that THEIR PROPHETS were teaching that God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob has no body and that He is infinite.

Fuck off.
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