Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
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04-02-2013, 04:16 PM
RE: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
(04-02-2013 04:12 PM)tiorthan Wrote:  
Chas Wrote:What convinces you they were based on real events? There is no evidence that they were.
Sorry, I should have expressed myself more clearly. I was not referring to Exodus actually but the Torah as a whole. IMO the story told in Exodus is a fabrication.

Bucky Ball Wrote:Wrong. They were politial spin, not "religious doctrine". See the link above. Moses was 100 % mythical. The time line is impossible, and there is no evidence for it. The myth as presented was support for one faction of the priests.
In a nation that justifies its existence and laws as God-given I don't see a difference between a political spin and religious doctrine.

By the way, even though I think the Exodus is a fabrication I wouldn't go as far as to call Moses 100% mythical. He may even be based on a real person. At least that's what I'd do if I were to sell a national myth to my people, take one of the local celebrities and attribute some wild stories to him.
There is no evidence for a Mosheh, or Moses. The time-line goes back beyond the point where written records were being kept by the tribes, who were unorganized, and not even a Confederation yet, at the time it began. There may have been some hero, or other. There is no way of knowing. There is a whole lot of evidence it did not happen the way Exodus tells it, and in fact good evidence it was a political document.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist & Levitating Yogi
Sent by Jebus to put the stud back in Bible Study.
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04-02-2013, 05:09 PM
RE: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
I have no doubt that groups of people moved about the planet. Shit, the deserts of the Western China and the Middle East are still chock full of nomads.

I do have to wonder how literate those people are... not so much today, but certainly two thousand years ago. Could anyone traveling with such nomadic people keep a journal? That would be speculative at best. If anyone wrote about the comings and goings of nomads, it would probably be someone from outside of that nomadic group. But that too would simply be speculative.

I don't have any relevant evidence that would cause me to connect basic nomadic migration to anything written in religious papers.

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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04-02-2013, 05:43 PM
Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Let's see... 42 years to cover a distance that even if convoluted couldn't have been over 250 miles? Like many Biblical stories, this one also strains credulity to the breaking point. And once you add in the fairy tale of the Red Sea being parted, this story joins the ranks of Noah's ark and Jonah in the big fish.
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05-02-2013, 09:44 AM
RE: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
(04-02-2013 12:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Christians would do well to look at that whole book as fiction and move on.
I agree.
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DL
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05-02-2013, 09:48 AM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2013 10:15 AM by Greatest I am.)
RE: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
(04-02-2013 01:24 PM)Vlad Wrote:  The exodus has absolutely zero evidence for this grand event,
I do not agree.

From the esoteric POV and the myth that sprung from it, we have no
argument.


What do you make of the city of Avaris and the Hyksos?

They were real Semites and did leave Egypt.

That clip also ends with what is arguably a depiction of the
parted waters drowning soldiers.


I see it as nature at work while believers put it to God’s
work.


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05-02-2013, 09:52 AM
Video RE: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
(04-02-2013 01:36 PM)tiorthan Wrote:  The Torah as it is known today was compiled long after the events described in its books and one must not forget that they were compiled as religious doctrine and not as a history book. I'm quite certain that a lot of the events described in these stories are based on real events but beyond that they have probably been altered in many ways ... deeds attributed to the "hero", events moved to fit the story etc. Some alterations are even visible in the text.
I agree.

That type of typological rendering was common in that day.
Such correlations have been made between the N T and the
book The Wars of the Jews.






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DL
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05-02-2013, 09:56 AM
RE: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
(04-02-2013 02:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Exactly. The Merneptah Stele, (Egyptian), is evidence for something, but Semites were already settled in Canaan when it happened. There was no large Exodus event. They give themselves away when they say "who brought us UP OUT", when they were (supposedly, still), "down, over". Clearly it's ancient myth, covered with overlay of later view.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...olden+Calf
I agree.
Nice work in that link.
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DL
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05-02-2013, 10:01 AM
RE: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
(04-02-2013 02:23 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Fiction obviously.



Silly rabbit, fratricide is for kids!
Fiction. I agree.
More like myths with a message. Perhaps just to give those people pride.
But do you see it as fiction based on the real facts shown in the Egyptian carvings.
What of the Hyksos from Avaris?
Could they be what later became Israel and the Jews?
After all, they were Semites.

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05-02-2013, 10:06 AM
RE: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
(04-02-2013 03:12 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 11:58 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?

I have always had a problem with the notion that God would have hardened Pharaoh’s soft heart and pave the
There is a documentary showing how every plague came about. Even the parting of the "Red Sea". In fact is was not the Red Sea, but the Reed Sea that they crossed, which during the right condition was an ankle pond.
I know. I included it in the O P.
Or did you mean some othe documentary?
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DL
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05-02-2013, 10:13 AM
RE: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
(04-02-2013 05:43 PM)Tanus Barbarus Wrote:  Let's see... 42 years to cover a distance that even if convoluted couldn't have been over 250 miles? Like many Biblical stories, this one also strains credulity to the breaking point. And once you add in the fairy tale of the Red Sea being parted, this story joins the ranks of Noah's ark and Jonah in the big fish.
Yep. Saying 40 days would not hold much drama. Now 40 years sure does.
I think they were all designed as myths with esoteric messages but this far from the culture that created them, it is hard if not impossible to draw out the esoteric spiritual messages that the ancients tried to hand down.
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