Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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12-03-2012, 12:17 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Against my better judgement... I'm going to get involved in this thread just a little bit., and I kind of feel like a bungee jumper jumping into this thread.

[Image: QQ45y.gif]

(10-03-2012 08:41 AM)Sol Wrote:  You know that Cole retracted from his position in the first vid , you will say he was forced to retract due to death threats.

You will not recognise that he was initially, simply mistaken given the imprecise scientifically shakey "evidence" he got from Leuchters' prussic acid tests.
And he retracted his statement when the evidence was done properly in '94 and Zyklon B was found to be a contaminant within many areas. I suppose you will say this was all concocted after the fact...

There is no sense in debating with someone who will not use parsimony when reviewing real facts and scientifically reproducible evidence.......

(10-03-2012 06:55 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  You said that David Cole recanted his holocaust views, yes... yes he did... but why? I am angry with you. Sol. Sun. I am very angry with you, yes! yes! He DID MAKE A RECANTATION!

Did you go farther than that? He was threatened, his life, and the lives of the ones he loved, threatened, he was stalked. So this RECANTATION is of LITTLE use. Such a CONFESSION is considered to be UNTRUE.

Richard Dawkins gets so many death threats just for being an atheist, what amount do you think those who deny the holocaust get?

Sol, don't ever talk to me about your views again. You knew, you knew... and yet you lied. Can anyone see from this example how easy you can get someone to confess to something they don't really believe in? And how EASY you can MISINFORM OTHERS. SOL. Quite unworthy of that latin name, you are now sun. From this day forward I will forever call you sun.

Come on TheArcticSage, Sol telegraphed that you would ignore the recantation because of the death threats. You bring up Richard Dawkins but that's a terrible example for your defense. Despite the death threats Dawkins does not recant his atheism. Because he knows it's right, and true. Your only reason to use that example is because you want to assume that Cole's death threats were more frequent and intense than Dawkins'. How often is it that people change their public testimony because they received death threats? Which is more likely, that he was wrong originally or that he felted coerced into changing his story? I think you're just looking for ways to discount evidence and testimony. If you received death threats here, would that change what you say here? I assume you wouldn't, because you'd probably do the rational thing and leave or contact some authority to report the behavior.

And you're being dishonest about Sol, he didn't lie to you about this. He told you exactly what you would say, and you followed suit. The death threats argument is a handy dandy excuse to ignore the evidence.
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12-03-2012, 01:48 PM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2012 02:04 PM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(12-03-2012 12:17 PM)kineo Wrote:  Come on TheArcticSage, Sol telegraphed that you would ignore the recantation because of the death threats. You bring up Richard Dawkins but that's a terrible example for your defense. Despite the death threats Dawkins does not recant his atheism. Because he knows it's right, and true. Your only reason to use that example is because you want to assume that Cole's death threats were more frequent and intense than Dawkins'. How often is it that people change their public testimony because they received death threats? Which is more likely, that he was wrong originally or that he felted coerced into changing his story? I think you're just looking for ways to discount evidence and testimony. If you received death threats here, would that change what you say here? I assume you wouldn't, because you'd probably do the rational thing and leave or contact some authority to report the behavior.

And you're being dishonest about Sol, he didn't lie to you about this. He told you exactly what you would say, and you followed suit. The death threats argument is a handy dandy excuse to ignore the evidence.

The JDL offered a cash reward for anyone who could provide David Cole's address, why would they want his address unless they intended to do him harm? I think that's a little more threatening than simply sending an anger filled e-mail.

You want testimonies? testimonies which come in contradiction to the story of the holocaust? How about these guys?





There ARE people who will tell the truth... but why on earth would the people who support the holocaust story broadcast them? I thought all the kiddies were supposed to go to the left to be gassed... remember? REMEMBER!?!?
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12-03-2012, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2012 02:52 PM by morondog.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
A blatant try at revising history now? Made by an anti-semite by the sound of it.

"Surely among the thousands of testimonies we could find some honest Jews who wouldn't lie."

Followed by a few guys explaining that yes, occasionally they could buy stuff at the canteen and were allowed to play music. Wow, that really makes up for a few million deaths.

I didn't watch to the end. I watched about half. Enough to establish that it was definitely a movie made with an agenda.
Also note, no direct question "did you witness people dying" which, if you're claiming these people as holocaust deniers, you'd expect them to get asked.
Using their images, without their permission, in an edited movie made for the purpose of denying this thing. Absolutely despicable. Or are you gonna tell me the guy who made that movie did get their permission?
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12-03-2012, 02:53 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
So you can dismiss the testimony of those that confirm it due to eye witnesses being unreliable, yet you submit the same medium for our consideration in the defence of your case. Interesting. You also post a video from a youtube user who is very one sided and would clearly look at nothing objectively.

Not that I am getting back involved, just saying. Double standards anyone.

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
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12-03-2012, 02:53 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
left side of the card they show in this video, that is 05:08 minutes.
I read what is written on there because I was just curious.
You see, if it was all fine and dandy there, just like the people in the video make it sound, then it would show in those words.
So they printed on this post card instructions for prisoners and family how to send a letter, what is allowed etc.
So first of all, there is a limitation on how much you are allowed to write. this is 15 lines per page in one letter. and one page only is allowed for a letter. 10 lines for a postcard.
In the beginning of the card they say that the people staying in the camp are in protective custody but later on during the rest of the instructions they are prisoners.
So just to make something clear, if you are in protective custody you are not considered a prisoner. But here they talk of the prisoner and the number of the prisoner, they do not talk about the name of the prisoner. But if you write to someone you are supposed to know that persons number and birthdate.

Now for a bit more background, a little history lesson if you wanna call it that.
Prisoners there did not have a name anymore. They had numbers. This was very useful to guards and the whole organizing.
There were hundrets of prisoners, all pretty much looked the same at some point, very skinny and all the same clothes.
They had to stand on a big place in the morning for a long time, no matter what weather. Just saying just because it was cold it didn't mean they would get warmer clothes. Either you stay alive in the rags you wear or you die and you are not even a loss because you are not considered a human anyway, therefore worthless.
Why did they have to stand on the place?
They where counted every morning and every evening. If one was missing they would have to wait until that person is found. Someone who didn't show up and was found later, was either already dead or killed on the spot.

Now for the food and the water. Of course they would get something, nothing of value though and not enough.
Hygiene was very bad too, they had like 4 toilets in one barrac and 4 sinks. Now let me tell how a barrac in a camp like this looks like. There is the bathroom that I just described. There is a little space a table or two, one or two benches or chairs. And those beds with levels. Say 8 of those leveled beds, each bed fits for one person and has two levels up so all in all a three level bed. Still following? In one of those beds would be up to three people. Blankets, arms, legs, pillow all had to be inside the bed or the whole barrac would be woken up and terrorized until everything is neat again. Now those people already had a low energy level, imagine how you feel when you try to get the little sleep and you think your arm might fall out of the bed during sleep. A guard might see you and pull you out to beat you up and make lots of noise, just because you arm or the corner of a blanket looked out of the bed while sleeping.

For the gas chamber in Dachau. As I said before, some say it was used, some say it wasn't used. I am actually one of the people with the opinion that it wasn't used. Why? Because it was built shortly before the everyone was released due to the end of the war and end of the hitler regime. But just giving you a hint, why would you built a normal harmless shower so far away from the baracs and the crematorium would be just behind the door of the "shower"? I find that pretty obvious but judge for yourself.

TheArcticSage: I understand your approach. To try and see if it is possible to fake a huge thing like the holocaust. You can do that with any war or historical event you please. I take no offense at you or others doing it exactly with the holocaust, why not. And I don't take offense while it is part of my immediate history as I actually have living members of my family who lived during that times and experienced it first hand, they where no jews but their story is another part of the holocaust that is mostly unknown because a minority of people had to get through that.
The only thing I asked you is to look at both sides and your answer was a link. I am sorry but I am not going to read it, I looked over it briefly, but I did my share of reading and discussing on this very topic. I did that for years during school in history lessons and for many years when I was done with school. I am done with homework on this topic, really.
You tell me to ask you if I have questions on the topic when this is part of my culture, family, history of the country I come from. That is like telling me to learn German. I could offer you to ask me if you have any questions on the topic but I felt it would sound very snotty to do so, so I didn't. So no, I have no questions. I posted here to make some things clear, I will gladly keep doing that.

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12-03-2012, 03:06 PM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2012 03:30 PM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(12-03-2012 02:53 PM)Eternal Wrote:  So you can dismiss the testimony of those that confirm it due to eye witnesses being unreliable, yet you submit the same medium for our consideration in the defence of your case. Interesting. You also post a video from a youtube user who is very one sided and would clearly look at nothing objectively.

Not that I am getting back involved, just saying. Double standards anyone.

Just a show that there are differing testimonies, not using them as evidence. I object to you saying that because someone is one sided or not looking at something objectively that what they have to say should not be taken into consideration. Failure to do so on both our parts would be one sided ourselves and therefore not being objective either making both of us look like hypocrites.

Have a 7 part video, for making me watch that hour long atrocity earlier. They didn't even bother putting music in that video and the guy who did the audio sucked.



























(12-03-2012 02:53 PM)Leela Wrote:  left side of the card they show in this video, that is 05:08 minutes.
I read what is written on there because I was just curious.
You see, if it was all fine and dandy there, just like the people in the video make it sound, then it would show in those words.
So they printed on this post card instructions for prisoners and family how to send a letter, what is allowed etc.
So first of all, there is a limitation on how much you are allowed to write. this is 15 lines per page in one letter. and one page only is allowed for a letter. 10 lines for a postcard.
In the beginning of the card they say that the people staying in the camp are in protective custody but later on during the rest of the instructions they are prisoners.
So just to make something clear, if you are in protective custody you are not considered a prisoner. But here they talk of the prisoner and the number of the prisoner, they do not talk about the name of the prisoner. But if you write to someone you are supposed to know that persons number and birthdate.

Now for a bit more background, a little history lesson if you wanna call it that.
Prisoners there did not have a name anymore. They had numbers. This was very useful to guards and the whole organizing.
There were hundrets of prisoners, all pretty much looked the same at some point, very skinny and all the same clothes.
They had to stand on a big place in the morning for a long time, no matter what weather. Just saying just because it was cold it didn't mean they would get warmer clothes. Either you stay alive in the rags you wear or you die and you are not even a loss because you are not considered a human anyway, therefore worthless.
Why did they have to stand on the place?
They where counted every morning and every evening. If one was missing they would have to wait until that person is found. Someone who didn't show up and was found later, was either already dead or killed on the spot.

Now for the food and the water. Of course they would get something, nothing of value though and not enough.
Hygiene was very bad too, they had like 4 toilets in one barrac and 4 sinks. Now let me tell how a barrac in a camp like this looks like. There is the bathroom that I just described. There is a little space a table or two, one or two benches or chairs. And those beds with levels. Say 8 of those leveled beds, each bed fits for one person and has two levels up so all in all a three level bed. Still following? In one of those beds would be up to three people. Blankets, arms, legs, pillow all had to be inside the bed or the whole barrac would be woken up and terrorized until everything is neat again. Now those people already had a low energy level, imagine how you feel when you try to get the little sleep and you think your arm might fall out of the bed during sleep. A guard might see you and pull you out to beat you up and make lots of noise, just because you arm or the corner of a blanket looked out of the bed while sleeping.

Not so sure about them not having winter clothing thing, maybe towards the end of the war. As for the part about getting beaten just for your arm hanging out of the bed while you sleep, that sounds to ridiculous for me to believe that, likely gotten from a testimony. Therefore, likely discounting it as not evidence for the holocaust (mass murder of jews not bedside beatings).


(12-03-2012 02:53 PM)Leela Wrote:  For the gas chamber in Dachau. As I said before, some say it was used, some say it wasn't used. I am actually one of the people with the opinion that it wasn't used. Why? Because it was built shortly before the everyone was released due to the end of the war and end of the hitler regime. But just giving you a hint, why would you built a normal harmless shower so far away from the baracs and the crematorium would be just behind the door of the "shower"? I find that pretty obvious but judge for yourself.

TheArcticSage: I understand your approach. To try and see if it is possible to fake a huge thing like the holocaust. You can do that with any war or historical event you please. I take no offense at you or others doing it exactly with the holocaust, why not. And I don't take offense while it is part of my immediate history as I actually have living members of my family who lived during that times and experienced it first hand, they where no jews but their story is another part of the holocaust that is mostly unknown because a minority of people had to get through that.
The only thing I asked you is to look at both sides and your answer was a link. I am sorry but I am not going to read it, I looked over it briefly, but I did my share of reading and discussing on this very topic. I did that for years during school in history lessons and for many years when I was done with school. I am done with homework on this topic, really.
You tell me to ask you if I have questions on the topic when this is part of my culture, family, history of the country I come from. That is like telling me to learn German. I could offer you to ask me if you have any questions on the topic but I felt it would sound very snotty to do so, so I didn't. So no, I have no questions. I posted here to make some things clear, I will gladly keep doing that.

As for building a shower room next to the crematorium there is a relatively simple answer for that, the answer is that you can use the heat from the crematorium to warm up the water used for the showers! Big Grin Which the 'gas chamber' at Dachau would have probably been a shower room before the allies remodeled it as a gas chamber. If you had read the article I shared you would know that. And I already offered to you if you wanted to discount anything please share with me an article to discount my discounts. Also Zyklon B is flammable (as well as explosive) so building a gas chamber next to a fire is not a good idea.

The holocaust isn't just part of your history, it's a part of the worlds history, I learned about it like you did in my school... except we didn't take field trips to fake gas chambers. We took field trips to the forest where me and the other children were left to fend for ourselves for 2 weeks, we were left with nothing to eat and only a canteen of water. From there we had to learn how to survive in the forest, at the end of the two weeks they came back to find us and those who were missing were presumed to have been eaten or died of other causes and left in the forest. We did this on a yearly basis for every grade we passed we had to spend another 2 weeks out in the woods. This went on for 13 years, until I graduated... to this day you can still go out in the forests and you might come across a wild man, the children who had been presumed dead and left behind in the forest surviving long enough to reach adulthood. Those were my field trips.

Just because we've graduated though doesn't mean we stop learning things, or relearning things we thought we knew.
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12-03-2012, 03:56 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
The whole holocaust, the whole war was ridiculous. But it happened. You not aggreeing doesn't change that.
I will not argue, I will not defend, I will not do homework, I will not give homework. As I said, I did my share of research on this, I don't feel the need to research more, call me closed minded for that sentence if you wish.
You seem to find the topic interesting and worth playing with it's concepts, do so. But don't expect others to share this enthusiasm. Not everyone has the time or the will to watch hours or propaganda. to check if 50 out of 50k people said something positive, and to read all kinds of links and articles and researches just to find out in the end that put together, yes it may be possible to fake it but being reasonable it is very unlikely this has been faked. You can fake literally everything, just need enough people and good organisational skills. *shrug*
Oh one more thing before I end this from my side: I don't believe you that you learned the same stuff about this topic as I did. In Germany, in the times when I went to school, we were still made feel bad because it was "our" country who did all this. Healthy people would get some distance from the topic and try learn about it simply to avoid the same mistakes over. But hey, just look at the world right now, same mistakes, same stupid desicions over and over again. People don't learn from history, never have, never will. And maybe in another 60 years someone like you will come and say that North Korea was never under dictatorship and that US military never really started wars. At least I will be dead at the time

For me this topic is over. I got your approach, it is interesting, but not interesting enough for me to spend hours on it.
Anyway have fun exploring more, don't forget to check both sides.

And little hint, don't expect people to give you links on what happened. If you want to find it out, research yourself. Google things like "second world war" "hitler regime" read about the backgrounds. And when you are done with that you can still say it didn't happen if you then still believe so for some reason.

ps: You staying in the forest for two weeks has nothing to do with this.

cheers and out

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12-03-2012, 04:21 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(12-03-2012 03:56 PM)Leela Wrote:  The whole holocaust, the whole war was ridiculous. But it happened. You not aggreeing doesn't change that.
I will not argue, I will not defend, I will not do homework, I will not give homework. As I said, I did my share of research on this, I don't feel the need to research more, call me closed minded for that sentence if you wish.
You seem to find the topic interesting and worth playing with it's concepts, do so. But don't expect others to share this enthusiasm. Not everyone has the time or the will to watch hours or propaganda. to check if 50 out of 50k people said something positive, and to read all kinds of links and articles and researches just to find out in the end that put together, yes it may be possible to fake it but being reasonable it is very unlikely this has been faked. You can fake literally everything, just need enough people and good organisational skills. *shrug*
Oh one more thing before I end this from my side: I don't believe you that you learned the same stuff about this topic as I did. In Germany, in the times when I went to school, we were still made feel bad because it was "our" country who did all this. Healthy people would get some distance from the topic and try learn about it simply to avoid the same mistakes over. But hey, just look at the world right now, same mistakes, same stupid desicions over and over again. People don't learn from history, never have, never will. And maybe in another 60 years someone like you will come and say that North Korea was never under dictatorship and that US military never really started wars. At least I will be dead at the time

For me this topic is over. I got your approach, it is interesting, but not interesting enough for me to spend hours on it.
Anyway have fun exploring more, don't forget to check both sides.

And little hint, don't expect people to give you links on what happened. If you want to find it out, research yourself. Google things like "second world war" "hitler regime" read about the backgrounds. And when you are done with that you can still say it didn't happen if you then still believe so for some reason.

ps: You staying in the forest for two weeks has nothing to do with this.

cheers and out

This, in its entirety. Germany has made it very clear that they were responsible for such actions, and have also made it abundantly apparent that they would not tolerate something of that kind again.

The argument that the Holocaust was faked, in my opinion, can be taken both ways. Wishful thinking, or denial. Either one is ignorance in the face of facts. Endless amounts of files, U.S soldiers discovering concentration camps, Jewish survivors, the massive amounts of Jews fleeing Europe, and the obvious antisemitic notion that was bred in Nazi Germany. Deny it if you want, but let this be known. I think you deniers out there are full of incomprehensible amounts of crap.

(12-03-2012 12:17 PM)kineo Wrote:  Against my better judgement... I'm going to get involved in this thread just a little bit., and I kind of feel like a bungee jumper jumping into this thread.

[Image: QQ45y.gif]

The saddest thing about this whole situation is the fact that I have seen the movie this .GIF is from.

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12-03-2012, 04:56 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(12-03-2012 04:21 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The saddest thing about this whole situation is the fact that I have seen the movie this .GIF is from.

Hahah, Sharktpous... I've never seen it, but I will never forget it. Big Grin
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12-03-2012, 05:27 PM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2012 05:41 PM by Filox.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Well now, isn't this a nice fat, juicy conspiracy and not only that, but it is about Jews and Israel and all that... Unfortunately, this was really silly to read, c'mon, there really are people who will say that they had "a grand piano" in Auschwitz? Now that's just silly. You don't even need to go to freaking Germany and talk about Jews, you can come to Croatia, go to Jasenovac and there you have it, third largest concentration camp in WW2. There were killings, starvation, executions, burnings of bodies, the full deal.

Let us not forget the Russian concentration camps where even more people died than in all the Europe camps. And can you guess where did they all got the idea of the concentration camp business? They all got it from Nazi Germany. So if the Nazis had good concentration camps and no holocaust ever happened, then where did the other concentration camps come from? Now isn't this all a mystery, right here?

Really people, don't be so stupid, there are smarter things to do, than to go around saying that holocaust never happened, that's just ... well that just like believing in God. There! As stupid as that! Even stupider!!

Peace!

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Quote:A British author Avro Manhattan's in his book "The Vatican's Holocaust" published in 1986 and 1988 says:

Just ONE NIGHT (page 48):

[Quote]
In the concentration camp at Jasenovac, on the night of August 29, 1942, orders were issued for executions. Bets were made as to who could liquidate the largest number of inmates. Peter Brzica cut the throats of 1,360 prisoners with a specially sharp butcher's knife. Having been proclaimed the prize-winner of the competition, he was elected King of the Cut-troats. A gold watch, a silver service, and a roasted sucking pig and wine were his other rewards...

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