Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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14-03-2012, 07:47 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
OP is probably Iranian or Palestinian.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

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14-03-2012, 08:19 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(12-03-2012 11:49 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  Assuming I'm right there would be no 1.1 million who died at Auschwitz and no if they were killed it wouldn't be alright with me. However I'm saying that it never took place. You... do know that the lampshades of human skin talked about in that video are a complete and utter lie right? And then there were various other things I pointed out.

Please clearly answer the following:

Did the Nazis imprison millions of people in concentration camps?
Did millions of these people die there?
Did the Nazis puposely kill millions of people in concentration camps?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-03-2012, 09:09 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(14-03-2012 08:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-03-2012 11:49 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  Assuming I'm right there would be no 1.1 million who died at Auschwitz and no if they were killed it wouldn't be alright with me. However I'm saying that it never took place. You... do know that the lampshades of human skin talked about in that video are a complete and utter lie right? And then there were various other things I pointed out.

Please clearly answer the following:

Did the Nazis imprison millions of people in concentration camps?
Did millions of these people die there?
Did the Nazis puposely kill millions of people in concentration camps?

1. Of course not! A zionist plot to make the cuddly Nazis look bad. They *wanted* to be in the camps because Hitler and Father Christmas wanted to keep them safe from the naughty Americans.
2. No no no you've got it all wrong. They did die, but it was because of the Americans again - they smuggled bombs in with the grand pianos sent by the red cross.
3. It was more by accident really. I advise you to read history more carefully - read between the lines for what they're not telling you! <foams at mouth>

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14-03-2012, 09:27 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(13-03-2012 03:36 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  An unsuspecting prisoner would not try to break through the window until it is too late. The most common form of gas used, if you actually researched anything was carbon monoxide. Only a select few, later in the war, used hydrogen cyanide in the form of Zyklon B.
You quite obviously did not even read the article I linked you to, because if you did, you would shut up about the fucking Russians.

Sooo... carbon monoxide gas chambers, care to link me to articles describing how that was done? Because all I've gotten so far is that it came from diesel exhaust...

(14-03-2012 06:28 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm not sure if anyone else noticed but he has a couple of times snuck into posts elsewhere that he believes 9/11 was a US government inside job. I'm not against everyone who believes in that, but when you connect it to this movement of his belief supposedly being about discrediting Israel, it there seems to be a context.

So he likely doesn't believe the main reason for 9/11 would of been terrorists from the middle east greatly against the USA's involvement in Israel... He seemed to not believe in the legitimacy of Israel because to him holocaust=justification for Israel.

I can't say I know what is the driving force for what he believes and is trying to tell us here, but I am saying there is a interesting trend here.(After typing that sentence I feel like a picture of my favorite Ancient Aliens conspiracist should be added)

You're telling me that the government had nothing to do with 9/11... and more so you have not even bothered to research 9/11. Further more you don't know the reason why Israel became a state? My driving force for what I believe on 9/11 is hours of reviewing videos (watching them fall) looking into articles about the 'other two planes' researching into the science part of it, finding inconsistencies and so forth.

My driving force for my disbelief in the holocaust, many MANY inconsistencies, various scientific studies and facts done from both sides, and beyond that, a large lack of physical evidence to support the holocaust. All you have to prove to me is that there were homicidal gas chambers used to mass murder Jews and we have ourselves a holocaust.
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14-03-2012, 09:51 AM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2012 09:54 AM by Filox.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Quote:You see if there are no gas chambers there is no slaughter, as you claim... I mean sure there's the individual cases but lets not go into details here. We both know what you mean by slaughter and for that slaughter to happen well the gas chambers is the only thing they have left.

There are a few things I realized while reading all this... My dear friend, you with the cool Star Trek logo, you are pretty misinformed, but not about facts, you know too many facts (not all of them are true), but you are misinformed about some basic words, dates and terms.

They say that 6 million Jews were killed and at least that amount of all OTHER people. Now, lets be logical and follow the time line, which you never did. Whoever gave you the idea that all those Jews (and other people) were killed by gas and whoever told you that the holocaust got it's name and reputation by gas chambers? We must review the time line to make you see things... The Jews were being gathered before the WW2, that means in the late 1930's. From that time until 1941 nobody ever mentioned any gas or chamber, but millions were already dead. This is what (stupid) Wiki tels us about it:
Quote:In June 1942 many hundreds of prisoners of Neuengamme concentration camp, amongst which 45 Dutch communists, were gassed in Bernburg. At that time, the preferred gas was carbon monoxide, often provided by the exhaust gas of gasoline-powered cars, trucks or army tanks.


So you see, gas chambers were the last method the Germans have found for killing, so it is definitely not a process that killed most of those people. Hunger and decease are the biggest killers, but that IS NOT the reason for denying the Holocaust, because those people were starving and sickening because the Germans have put them in inhumane environment without food and proper cloths, PLUS, they used prisoners as SLAVE LABOR, so they also died from exhaustion. After they saw that this process is too slow they started shooting and knifing them, but bullets are too expensive and this process is also not fast enough, plus the more enemies they gathered, the less room they had. So, until the first gas ever was used, Holocaust already happened!! Gas (if you believe in it) only speed things up and killed more people, but even if the war ended in 1942, before the gas chambers, it WOULD STILL BE A FUCKING GENOCIDE!!! 1 million is enough to call it a genocide.

You are also saying that "only" 400k Jews were killed in the WW2?! Are you cereal? Do you know that only in Croatian concentration camp over 80k people were killed in "only" 4 years it existed. They also used gas in the last years. I know people who had families there...

Now back to gas, you constantly repeat how hard it is to make a gas chamber, what toxins should be used, how ineffective it would be... WTF is wrong with you? I can make a gas chamber in 2 minutes out of my car. I can turn my whole house in a gas chamber in 15 minutes. What the fuck are you talking about then??? You can take a truck put a hose from the exhaust to the window, seal the window and there you have it, a gas chamber! If you ask me, I think that the Zyclone B was only tested upon, not used at all that regularly, when you have CO and CO2 as much as you want it and as simple as turning on the key in your car. So with this new knowledge of the Ultimate Logic by Filox, all your claims look ridiculous.

Oh, and what about this, you never mentioned this:
Quote:Execution by exhaust gas was performed in specially modified vans, known as gaswagen (variously translated as "gas wagon", "gas van", or "gas car").

Oh yeah, you think that the Germans invented gas killing? Nope, much older:
Quote:In his book, Le Crime de Napoléon, French historian Claude Ribbe has claimed that in the early 19th century, Napoleon used poison gas to put down slave rebellions in Haiti and Guadeloupe. Based on accounts left by French officers, he alleges that enclosed spaces including the holds of ships were used as makeshift gas chambers where sulfur dioxide gas (probably generated by burning sulfur, which would have been readily available from volcanoes in the area) was used to execute up to 100,000 rebellious slaves. These claims remain controversial.
Controversial or not, it is a very simple and efficient way to kill a large number of people, I really can't see how hard it is to believe in a story like that. Ever heard of Occam's razor? You try to over complicate things, but you forget that the truth is in fact always simple.

If you want my opinion on the whole WW2, and this is me showing you just how big "conspiracy theorist" I am, I will now tell you who started the WW2 and who is responsible for the world today, the Rothschild, Rockefeller, DuPont... Yes I am way crazier than you are... This is just so that you do not think of me as someone who does not follow these things...

You mentioned USA and Japan as well, why not, I will play this to the end. Whoever told that the Americans didn't do a genocide with atomic bombs? I consider it to be a genocide and I'm sure a lot of people do as well, what was not genocidal in that act??

With or without gas chambers, much more that 400k Jews were killed in the WW2, the Nazi Germany is to blame for that and it was done deliberately, systematically and targeted on Jews in the first place, then came all the rest "unfitted" for the Third Reich. The word "GENOCIDE" can have no better definition than this. The word Holocaust is the word for that specific genocide.

Now please tell me that you do not believe that Turks have made a genocide in Armenia, or on Kurds, or that Srebrenica in Bosnia was not genocide, or that Israel is not doing it all to Palestine... Those are all genocides, only maybe on smaller scales, one group of people systematically killing and exterminating the other group of people. It IS as simple as that. The way HOW it is made is irrelevant, completely.

Peace.

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14-03-2012, 09:56 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(14-03-2012 09:27 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(13-03-2012 03:36 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  An unsuspecting prisoner would not try to break through the window until it is too late. The most common form of gas used, if you actually researched anything was carbon monoxide. Only a select few, later in the war, used hydrogen cyanide in the form of Zyklon B.
You quite obviously did not even read the article I linked you to, because if you did, you would shut up about the fucking Russians.

Sooo... carbon monoxide gas chambers, care to link me to articles describing how that was done? Because all I've gotten so far is that it came from diesel exhaust...

(14-03-2012 06:28 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm not sure if anyone else noticed but he has a couple of times snuck into posts elsewhere that he believes 9/11 was a US government inside job. I'm not against everyone who believes in that, but when you connect it to this movement of his belief supposedly being about discrediting Israel, it there seems to be a context.

So he likely doesn't believe the main reason for 9/11 would of been terrorists from the middle east greatly against the USA's involvement in Israel... He seemed to not believe in the legitimacy of Israel because to him holocaust=justification for Israel.

I can't say I know what is the driving force for what he believes and is trying to tell us here, but I am saying there is a interesting trend here.(After typing that sentence I feel like a picture of my favorite Ancient Aliens conspiracist should be added)

You're telling me that the government had nothing to do with 9/11... and more so you have not even bothered to research 9/11. Further more you don't know the reason why Israel became a state? My driving force for what I believe on 9/11 is hours of reviewing videos (watching them fall) looking into articles about the 'other two planes' researching into the science part of it, finding inconsistencies and so forth.

My driving force for my disbelief in the holocaust, many MANY inconsistencies, various scientific studies and facts done from both sides, and beyond that, a large lack of physical evidence to support the holocaust. All you have to prove to me is that there were homicidal gas chambers used to mass murder Jews and we have ourselves a holocaust.

I have looked into it, didn't say anything about what I think about it here. There is a topic in this forum about it, at least 1 big one. The discussion of that should be there but I seem plenty of the arguments and counter cases. Most of the government involvement motive is ignoring actual evidence of some area or making plenty of assumptions.

Although just as I have said about this situation. It doesn't mean I buy 100% of the traditionally sold story. I knew people in the Air Force's 1st call base and other evidence leads that say likely the flight in Pennsylvania was shot down. These situations don't make it a more encompassing conspiracy. It's details they don't want to correct after the occurrence when they have their "feel good" type of stories in place.

I'm not in Europe or near the area with the expertise to look into the validity of gas chambers. I know that I looked at the reports that some people tested saying these chambers/delouser rooms didn't have much cyanide residue, others tested it saying it did. Idk but there are disturbing trends of the behavior of some of the revisionists in this situation. Because the Russian forces through out some fake number of 4 mil when other information of records show it makes sense to equate 1.1 Mil died in Auschwitz.

I'm not against revisionist new historians.. but when they seem biased before their studies it comes out questionable. The occupation of Israel new historians have a lot of interesting data how the Palestinians were victims of genocide but their motives are some jewish folks themselves who aren't anti-semetical but didn't seem biased in their books or videos.
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14-03-2012, 10:04 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Oh yeah, I didn't mention 9/11, but I am 100% sure that was not made by some illiterate extreme Muslim, but it was orchestrated by the 3 families I mentioned before. Yes it was an inside job, but not a Government inside job, but "behind the black curtain" inside job, only a few knew about it and those people are: a) dead (the ones that did the dirty work) and b) untouchable, because they rule the whole world and none can touch them. Simple and logical, as always...

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14-03-2012, 10:05 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
I am not even sure the word genocide applies - only half of the killed people were Jewish. All kinds could be found in concentration camps.

I agree that how they were killed is totally irrelevant.

Dragging people out of their homes at night and sticking them into escape-proof camps where they perish from whatever cause is a horrendous crime.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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14-03-2012, 10:12 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Ah but the Jews were the first on the list and they were the one that the Nazi politics called out, they were the biggest victims and they were systematically ALL taken away. All others were just a nuisance, so they dragged them ALONG with the Jews. They were just not fit for the Reich, but Jews were proclaimed enemies and "must be killed, all of them". The "Jewish question" as Hitler called it. That is why this was a genocide of Jews in the first place, but yes it was a genocide of all other as well.

What all fail to see today is that Stalin killed more Russians after the WW2 than Hitler killed all over the world during the war. So if you want to feel sorry for the biggest victims of WW2, I'm sorry, but it was the Russians, not the Jews or all other...

Or it was all fabricated and nobody ever died in Siberia, we have no proof, have you ever been to Siberia and saw the dead bodies?

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14-03-2012, 10:27 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(14-03-2012 10:12 AM)Filox Wrote:  Ah but the Jews were the first on the list and they were the one that the Nazi politics called out, they were the biggest victims and they were systematically ALL taken away. All others were just a nuisance, so they dragged them ALONG with the Jews. They were just not fit for the Reich, but Jews were proclaimed enemies and "must be killed, all of them". The "Jewish question" as Hitler called it. That is why this was a genocide of Jews in the first place, but yes it was a genocide of all other as well.

What all fail to see today is that Stalin killed more Russians after the WW2 than Hitler killed all over the world during the war. So if you want to feel sorry for the biggest victims of WW2, I'm sorry, but it was the Russians, not the Jews or all other...

Or it was all fabricated and nobody ever died in Siberia, we have no proof, have you ever been to Siberia and saw the dead bodies?

Yes, of course Hitler killed more Jews than anyone else, half of the dead were Jews and the rest were distributed over many categories. The "final solution" for Jews gave perfect cover for killing anyone they wanted alongside. Just saying, because no one ever sheds a tear over those other millions that also perished.

It's not a competition, who was the biggest victim is irrelevant IMO. Dead is dead, and dying in misery is dying in misery, and being dragged out of your homes is just that.

It's a crime against humanity. I like that term a lot better than any other, it respects everyone who was targeted.

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