Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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09-03-2012, 06:56 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
There are many photos, movies and first hand eye witness accounts, and the witness don't know each other and the stories are all congruent.
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10-03-2012, 05:35 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 06:03 AM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(09-03-2012 06:56 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  There are many photos, movies and first hand eye witness accounts, and the witness don't know each other and the stories are all congruent.

About as congruent as intersecting lines, there are many photos of dead jews, many photos of jews working, many photos of jews in ghettos but my god was it so much to ask for any photos of the gas chambers? The SS supposedly destroyed them all... yet even in the tides of war such was unlikely especially given how fast the allies moved to berlin after taking the rhyne. Plus no cyanide traces on those gas chambers... no traces of cyanide means no one was gassed. Which is the central point of the entire holocaust story.

Also failure by scientists/forensics to do this in the 40 years that it took for someone to finally try it speaks in volumes about something being wrong. I'm looking at the physical evidence for the holocaust LadyJane eye-witnesses to this are as about as reliable as a blind, deaf, senseless mouse to complete a maze.

(09-03-2012 10:09 AM)germanyt Wrote:  You act like this took place hundreds of years ago. There are people alive today that were in concentration camps.

And all of those Japanese people will openly admit that the Americans murdered them turned their skin into lamp shades and made bars of soap from their fat. I don't care about the eye-witness accounts, they are undependable and have refined as the holocaust itself has been refined.

(09-03-2012 09:01 AM)nach_in Wrote:  of course I wouldn't believe you right away, unless you give me some kind of evidence, check this site (warning: disturbing pictures ahead) http://isurvived.org/Holocaust-definition.html

A lot of those pictures indicate that nazis were actually killing the jews and other demographic groups I guess. Adding that to the indirect information we can find through published investigations makes the holocaust impossible to reasonably deny.

We can argue about the accuracy of those investigations and the extent of the nazi government guilt in the deaths (maybe they didn't killed all of them, maybe they just let them die, which is not much better actually) but I don't think we can deny the whole event, it would be like denying evolution because we can't see a whole species evolving into another in a lifetime, disregarding the overwhelming evidence there is to it.

I'll go ahead and say that allies had some responsibility, it seems reasonable it happened as you describe, but I doubt that responsibility is really comparable to that of the nazis

I checked out the entire website you shared with me, the only evidence that has is the fact that many jews were deported to concentration camps, I'm not denying that. I accept that history as I also accept the fact that the United States were doing the same thing to it's Japanese citizens. In the multitudes of THOUSANDS just like over in Europe. It also shows the camps German guard and workforce had left the camp and abandoned it for the allies to take over. This would mean that the bodies of the dead would not be cremated, which in turn would likely spread disease, which would likely worsen the already poor conditions, it also means that there would have been no one to feed them, which means that the Germans probably expected the allies to find the camps quickly.

'published investigations' you mean like the priest who is travelling across europe to find the remains of holocaust victims... who by divine will was led to a remote town where 15,000 jews had been mass murdered by SS officers and the town never spoke about it to anyone until he happened to come along? Or questioning eye-witnesses... I support evolution because there is.... I don't know... physical evidence? Where is the physical evidence for the holocaust? If I took the eye-witness and the account of investigations like that of the priest, It would be like me believing the Christians and their bible, because remember that's the way they do it too!

(09-03-2012 10:30 AM)Eternal Wrote:  The start of your post is a bit misleading. You won't get sent anywhere for questioning. Denial is not a question. It also does not apply to the whole European Union, it only applies to countries that criminalise it. From what i can tell these tend to mainly be the perpetrators of the holocaust, who are probably more acutely aware of how any similar sentiment from them will be compared to such a dark time in their history.

I am also not completely sure what you are referring to in the rest of your post. Are you saying that we are misled on the causes of their deaths? If you are then I would suggest a lot more thought goes into your post because there is a heap of evidence to the contrary, most of which would need disproving before your assertions could be given any serious consideration.

Only applies to the countries that criminalize it? That's most of the European Union perhaps not all, but most, the UK might not have any but I think it would probably be classified under 'hate speech' over there anyways. Mainly just the 'perpetrators'? Oh how little you know.

Here just go to wikipedia for a quick brief. Laws against holocaust 'denial' most of your evidence would need proving to be considered evidence instead of just assuming that it is what it is, please, share with me your evidence.

@Dom

Nice story, but it has nothing to do with my topic.
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10-03-2012, 05:56 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
I didn't get to know my grandpa for very long. He died when I was young. He talked about the war a few times to me and told me there were things I wasn't old enough to understand but that people are capable of horrible things. I never understood for the longest time.

Later on, in my teens, one day my dad and I were talking about the world wars. He told me that my grandpa was a medic in the war and kept a camera with him. He took a lot of photos and said that he didn't think I was ready for them but told me that him and the people he was with in the army had liberated a concentration camp and that he had been through a lot.

A few years ago he got out an album of the things my grandpa had taken pictures of. Piles of bodies, huge amounts of destruction, skulls, body parts, skeletons, stuff everywhere. I had a really hard time believing that people were capable of doing this to another living human being. Pictures of some of the people who had been starved and were skinny as a rail. It was pretty sick stuff to see. One picture I saw was a huge pile of skulls, one that still sticks with me and I will likely never forget. There were pictures of furnaces, pits for things. After seeing that, I did not by any means feel that it was something that was made up. It was royally messed up.

I have a few friends who live in Germany. The generation who is my age doesn't really talk about it. They said their parents don't really talk about it. I sort of get the feeling it's one of those things where no one wants to talk about it, think about it, admit it or consider it. It's so messed up that I don't think anyone wants to go back and think about it. It's nothing to be proud of. I also don't think that the Germany we see today is the Germany we saw then. I would we would be silly to consider it to be the case. Just the same as I don't think the Japan we see today is the same Japan that was bombed in the world war.

I think asking for people to go dig up bodies and start probing about an atrocity on such a scale because you want evidence would be met with an asinine amount of resistance because it is so touchy. What you may want you likely will not get. Perhaps generations later... but not now.
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10-03-2012, 06:35 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 06:42 AM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 05:56 AM)Logisch Wrote:  I didn't get to know my grandpa for very long. He died when I was young. He talked about the war a few times to me and told me there were things I wasn't old enough to understand but that people are capable of horrible things. I never understood for the longest time.

Later on, in my teens, one day my dad and I were talking about the world wars. He told me that my grandpa was a medic in the war and kept a camera with him. He took a lot of photos and said that he didn't think I was ready for them but told me that him and the people he was with in the army had liberated a concentration camp and that he had been through a lot.

A few years ago he got out an album of the things my grandpa had taken pictures of. Piles of bodies, huge amounts of destruction, skulls, body parts, skeletons, stuff everywhere. I had a really hard time believing that people were capable of doing this to another living human being. Pictures of some of the people who had been starved and were skinny as a rail. It was pretty sick stuff to see. One picture I saw was a huge pile of skulls, one that still sticks with me and I will likely never forget. There were pictures of furnaces, pits for things. After seeing that, I did not by any means feel that it was something that was made up. It was royally messed up.

I have a few friends who live in Germany. The generation who is my age doesn't really talk about it. They said their parents don't really talk about it. I sort of get the feeling it's one of those things where no one wants to talk about it, think about it, admit it or consider it. It's so messed up that I don't think anyone wants to go back and think about it. It's nothing to be proud of. I also don't think that the Germany we see today is the Germany we saw then. I would we would be silly to consider it to be the case. Just the same as I don't think the Japan we see today is the same Japan that was bombed in the world war.

I think asking for people to go dig up bodies and start probing about an atrocity on such a scale because you want evidence would be met with an asinine amount of resistance because it is so touchy. What you may want you likely will not get. Perhaps generations later... but not now.

I've seen a lot of pictures of dead bodies, mutilated bodies, decomposing bodies, people with limbs missing, a person cut in half across the mid section while still alive (he also lived through that, I watched the video I either thought it was a hoax or that he had died... I was wrong, he actually lived! I mean you don't expect someone to live after being sheered in half do you?) I've also seen video with people being killed (not just already dead) etc etc, yes it's a hugely cruel world and seeing such things would ultimately make me come to the conclusion that to live is to suffer (which I have not been the only one to reach that conclusion)

However, such as I have seen there was only truth behind what I saw with my own two eyes. The above mentioned, the next inquiry was to as how they died. The bodies we see as evidence for the holocaust were obviously not gassed and the cremated. Which is the entire point of the holocaust is the mass gassing of the jews and the cremation of the bodies. As for the furnaces you saw, they're called Crematoriums. A Crematorium takes a few hours to incinerate a body into nothing but ash.

Excuse me for not sharing the same sentiments when I believe that nothing should be excluded from scrutiny and question. On the contrary I believe that an atrocity on such a scale would HAVE MASSIVE amounts of physical evidence to support it. Therefore, myself and others would not be asking to much of anyone.
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10-03-2012, 06:55 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
@thesarcopticmange.

Sorry didn't want to quote your over dribbling puddle of dumb again.

Couple or three points I would make..........
You need to do a bit more research, or just any research would help in order to form an intelligent opinion. Everyone is allowed to have opinions but not to make shit up. mkay.

Your reprehensible brain fart seems to hinge on the whole cyanide "gas chamber" thang...

NOT finding any trace elements in the chambers is indeed deeply suspicious.....
Because even IF cyanide wasn't used to murder people en masse. There would still be traces of cyanide in the chambers.........(mostly due to the building materials used.) hmmm, suspicious indeed.

Also, you may not be interested to know that something as simple as the application of ammonia removes traces of cyanide. Not sure if that helps in your quest for "truth" ?

Most, if not all, your "facts" within your posts seem to be mostly the usual neo-nazi apologia one encounters. You know the type, those folks that rational people are embarrassed to share the gene pool with.

As for the European union, I can tell from what you say you have read, that you do not understand how it all works. Best leave it to those who do. Don't worry your safe where you are, you have faux news to give you your world view...

Everyone is entitled to be naive, immature and even ignorant of the facts. However, for some things, there is no entitlement to abuse that privilege..

For myself I find this kind of crass stupidity both, offensive and insulting.
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10-03-2012, 07:47 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 06:55 AM)Sol Wrote:  @thesarcopticmange.

Sorry didn't want to quote your over dribbling puddle of dumb again.

Couple or three points I would make..........
You need to do a bit more research, or just any research would help in order to form an intelligent opinion. Everyone is allowed to have opinions but not to make shit up. mkay.

I have a feeling you're talking to me and I have a feeling you are a troll as well. Regardless I have done research into the matter. I went into this situation with a predisposition into already believing that the holocaust happened, I thought that whatever argument the other side would give would be ludicrous, it was not.

This video was made in 1992 BEFORE it was made illegal to question or deny the holocaust, had he tried to do this today... he WOULD be in Jail.




another good video I suggest is david irving.





Of course you'll have to do more than watch videos of people speaking about it, go to some websites and do a little bit of research into it, including some court trials in which you can find on the internet as well. I did not come to my conclusion overnight... I spent days and nights on end before I finally made my conclusion. Listening to BOTH sides of the story EQUALLY.

(10-03-2012 06:55 AM)Sol Wrote:  Your reprehensible brain fart seems to hinge on the whole cyanide "gas chamber" thang...

NOT finding any trace elements in the chambers is indeed deeply suspicious.....
Because even IF cyanide wasn't used to murder people en masse. There would still be traces of cyanide in the chambers.........(mostly due to the building materials used.) hmmm, suspicious indeed.

Also, you may not be interested to know that something as simple as the application of ammonia removes traces of cyanide. Not sure if that helps in your quest for "truth" ?

Most, if not all, your "facts" within your posts seem to be mostly the usual neo-nazi apologia one encounters. You know the type, those folks that rational people are embarrassed to share the gene pool with.

As for the European union, I can tell from what you say you have read, that you do not understand how it all works. Best leave it to those who do. Don't worry your safe where you are, you have faux news to give you your world view...

Everyone is entitled to be naive, immature and even ignorant of the facts. However, for some things, there is no entitlement to abuse that privilege..

For myself I find this kind of crass stupidity both, offensive and insulting.

I am an atheist, a disbeliever in the holocaust, and accept that the government was behind the 9/11 attacks. I do not get my information from fox news, and my pure motivation to research into subjects is so that I may know the truth about them, not because I am 'secretly a Nazi-sympathizer'

The walls would have been soaked through and through with cyanide as often as they were supposedly used, such was the case in the gas chambers... used to delouse clothing... not destroyed by nazi's after they left.
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10-03-2012, 07:55 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
so are you saying that people didn't get killed and they just happend to die by thousands of typhus? and that nazis were all rainbows and nutella with the jews?

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10-03-2012, 08:16 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 07:55 AM)nach_in Wrote:  so are you saying that people didn't get killed and they just happend to die by thousands of typhus? and that nazis were all rainbows and nutella with the jews?

Well if you want to put it that way, yeah.

On a more serious note I'm not going to deny that there weren't cases when SS or German soldiers acted individually and killed jews on their own accord. There was a lot of hatred towards the jews, except that is no more a holocaust than it is murder. We see similar things happening in the war in afghanistan where civilians are being killed by U.S. soldiers who act out individually... there are many atrocities of this war that our media covers up.

And Yes, they did die by the thousands of typhus due to a number of epidemics which not only ravaged the camps but most of Europe during the war. In fact one such epidemic led to Himmler sending a letter to the Auschwitz commander to reduce the fatalities in the camp by any means possible.
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10-03-2012, 08:41 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Sigh....
This is the fundamental problem with conspiracy theories - it becomes circular.

You know that Cole retracted from his position in the first vid , you will say he was forced to retract due to death threats.

You will not recognise that he was initially, simply mistaken given the imprecise scientifically shakey "evidence" he got from Leuchters' prussic acid tests.
And he retracted his statement when the evidence was done properly in '94 and Zyklon B was found to be a contaminant within many areas. I suppose you will say this was all concocted after the fact...

There is no sense in debating with someone who will not use parsimony when reviewing real facts and scientifically reproducible evidence.......

Again, to make things up and to believe in propaganda to support ones own point of view is NOT rational. It has a touch of cognitive bias, especially if, as you say you have invested time in "studying" the fantasy......

I am not after an argument, I simply thought I should point out, that lying and making things up about something as serious as genocide is highly contemptable.

You know...... just sayin.
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10-03-2012, 08:44 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 08:41 AM)Sol Wrote:  Sigh....
This is the fundamental problem with conspiracy theories - it becomes circular.

You know that Cole retracted from his position in the first vid , you will say he was forced to retract due to death threats.

You will not recognise that he was initially, simply mistaken given the imprecise scientifically shakey "evidence" he got from Leuchters' prussic acid tests.
And he retracted his statement when the evidence was done properly in '94 and Zyklon B was found to be a contaminant within many areas. I suppose you will say this was all concocted after the fact...

There is no sense in debating with someone who will not use parsimony when reviewing real facts and scientifically reproducible evidence.......

Again, to make things up and to believe in propaganda to support ones own point of view is NOT rational. It has a touch of cognitive bias, especially if, as you say you have invested time in "studying" the fantasy......

I am not after an argument, I simply thought I should point out, that lying and making things up about something as serious as genocide is highly contemptable.

You know...... just sayin.

Show a source for the 94 study please, it's the first time I've ever heard of such a thing. Also a source for Cole retracting his revisions first time I've heard of that too.
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