Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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17-03-2012, 05:08 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(17-03-2012 04:31 PM)shiranl Wrote:  First you question the very validity of the Holocaust, and then you say we (YES, I'm Jewish, grandaughter of Holocaust survivors) bribed the EU in order to silence the "truth" about the Holocaust? well, from where do I know that.....hammmm.....

My grandmother sow her brother murdered by the Nazi's infront of her eyes when she was 12. This is, in fact, one of my main reasons why I do not believe in god. Can you tell me how a 12 year old girl can invent such thing, and then repeat it over and over again just to creat a "reason" for Israel to establish?we had legal and historical rights to have a state in the land of Israel way before the Holocaust. Most Europian Jewish weren't Zionisnt at all, most German Jewish people (between them- my own grandmother) sow themselves as German first and than Jewish. my great grandfather fought for Germany in WW1, and lost his hearing because of it.

I invite you to come and visit Yad VaShem, maybe you'll stop your BS.

You questioned the validity of a god? How dare you! Tongue Secondly you aren't Jewish, you're an atheist, you can be an Israeli or a Palestinian... but to be Jewish you have to follow Judaism and Judaism is a religion. Care to share your grandmothers testimony? Anyone can tell a tall tale, old people are no exception.

Thirdly the Israeli's do not have any historical right to have a state in Palestine, they can be there all they want, just because their ancestors once lived there doesn't give them a right to take over. Otherwise if that were the case Native Americans should be the ones in charge in North and South America. I would say that they don't have any legal rights either but that wouldn't be true because they are the current state now so they decide what's legal and what's not.

And I will not be going to Yad VaShem which resides in the state of Israel (that's like using the Vatican as proof of their god), not while the laws exist there that will imprison me for up to 5 years for denying the holocaust, if you live there I'd be careful, if you started investigating the holocaust... it could very well get you arrested.

And no they didn't necessarily need the holocaust to give them a reason to create a state in Palestine, they had made a deal with the British government that if they could get the Americans involved in world war II the British government would help them make Israel. Simultaneously they also made a deal with Adolf Hitler to have him deport their fellow Jews to Palestine... however there were two small problems with that, the Germans never did conquer Palestine, and the British government had interfered with their deportation. (mainly because if the Germans succeeded in fulfilling the Zionist's wishes that they would probably break the deal with them to get the Americans involved)
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17-03-2012, 05:11 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
zombie thread will not die.

you who have never been to these places, who discount all except those who agree with you as biased. How are you so sure of yourself? Through FAITH in Hitler we are saved?
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17-03-2012, 05:52 PM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2012 05:56 PM by shiranl.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Quote:You questioned the validity of a god? How dare you! Tongue Secondly you aren't Jewish, you're an atheist, you can be an Israeli or a Palestinian... but to be Jewish you have to follow Judaism and Judaism is a religion. Care to share your grandmothers testimony? Anyone can tell a tall tale, old people are no exception.


How dare you to tell me what I am and what I am not? this is my choice, my view of the world, my identity. Your opinion on what Judaism is or isn't, doesn't really matter. Secondly, I am Jewish and I am atheist, and I can definetly be both at the same time. Read a little bit about Humanistic Judaism and come back to me, OK?

Quote:Thirdly the Israeli's do not have any historical right to have a state in Palestine, they can be there all they want, just because their ancestors once lived there doesn't give them a right to take over. Otherwise if that were the case Native Americans should be the ones in charge in North and South America. I would say that they don't have any legal rights either but that wouldn't be true because they are the current state now so they decide what's legal and what's not.

Well, then the Palestinians do not have any historical right to have a state in the land of Israel, they can be there all they want, just because their ancestors once lived there doesn't give them a right to take over.
It is as valid as your statement, and not even correct one since, well...the Palestinain do not have ancestors who lived in this land before the Othoman Empire. they called themselves "Palestinians" only in 1967 (right after, how ironicly, Israel has once again destroyed the Arab's plan to destroy it, and the Jewish people have returned to Jerusalem), in Khartoum conference, after the name of the land "Palestine". the name "Palestine" was given to the land by the Roman Empire, right after they exiled the Jewish people. They called the land "Palestine" after the "Philisitines", the biggest biblical enemies of the Jewish people, whose name's source is from the Hebrew word "Palash". invade in free translation. Yes, the Palestinians calls themselves invaders. And of course, between them the ancient Philisitines there is nothing in common. On the other hand, in the land of Israel there was always a permament Jewish community, big or small, from ancient times.

You are cute. After reading about Humanistic Judaism, you can read about the Balfour Statment and Resulotion 181, 2 of the many international legal rights given to the Jewish people to have their own state in Israel. Both of them given before the establishment of Israel.

Quote:And I will not be going to Yad VaShem which resides in the state of Israel (that's like using the Vatican as proof of their god), not while the laws exist there that will imprison me for up to 5 years for denying the holocaust, if you live there I'd be careful, if you started investigating the holocaust... it could very well get you arrested.

Why not? afraid to confront your own lies? and Yad VaShem is a museum, not a place of worship, if you can't distinguish between the 2, well....it's your problem, and I will advice you to check it out.
And no...Israel is a democratic country, and you will not be arrested for investigating the Holocaust. As long as you don't spray swastikas on graves, you won't be charged with anything except of vandalism (and even than it's a fine and community service, not up to 5 years in jail). Israel does not have any laws about denying the Holocaust. You were fed up with BS.

Quote:And no they didn't necessarily need the holocaust to give them a reason to create a state in Palestine, they had made a deal with the British government that if they could get the Americans involved in world war II the British government would help them make Israel. Simultaneously they also made a deal with Adolf Hitler to have him deport their fellow Jews to Palestine... however there were two small problems with that, the Germans never did conquer Palestine, and the British government had interfered with their deportation. (mainly because if the Germans succeeded in fulfilling the Zionist's wishes that they would probably break the deal with them to get the Americans involved)

Make a deal, betrayed that deal, make another deal, and betray it again.....you do know this theory of yours is valid as the shark of the Mossad in Sharm Al Sheih, right?

And you know Arabs are semites as well, yes? it mean you need to hate them too.
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17-03-2012, 06:49 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(17-03-2012 05:52 PM)shiranl Wrote:  How dare you to tell me what I am and what I am not? this is my choice, my view of the world, my identity. Your opinion on what Judaism is or isn't, doesn't really matter. Secondly, I am Jewish and I am atheist, and I can definetly be both at the same time. Read a little bit about Humanistic Judaism and come back to me, OK?

Well, then the Palestinians do not have any historical right to have a state in the land of Israel, they can be there all they want, just because their ancestors once lived there doesn't give them a right to take over.
It is as valid as your statement, and not even correct one since, well...the Palestinain do not have ancestors who lived in this land before the Othoman Empire. they called themselves "Palestinians" only in 1967 (right after, how ironicly, Israel has once again destroyed the Arab's plan to destroy it, and the Jewish people have returned to Jerusalem), in Khartoum conference, after the name of the land "Palestine". the name "Palestine" was given to the land by the Roman Empire, right after they exiled the Jewish people. They called the land "Palestine" after the "Philisitines", the biggest biblical enemies of the Jewish people, whose name's source is from the Hebrew word "Palash". invade in free translation. Yes, the Palestinians calls themselves invaders. And of course, between them the ancient Philisitines there is nothing in common. On the other hand, in the land of Israel there was always a permament Jewish community, big or small, from ancient times.

You are cute. After reading about Humanistic Judaism, you can read about the Balfour Statment and Resulotion 181, 2 of the many international legal rights given to the Jewish people to have their own state in Israel. Both of them given before the establishment of Israel.


Why not? afraid to confront your own lies? and Yad VaShem is a museum, not a place of worship, if you can't distinguish between the 2, well....it's your problem, and I will advice you to check it out.
And no...Israel is a democratic country, and you will not be arrested for investigating the Holocaust. As long as you don't spray swastikas on graves, you won't be charged with anything except of vandalism (and even than it's a fine and community service, not up to 5 years in jail). Israel does not have any laws about denying the Holocaust. You were fed up with BS.

Make a deal, betrayed that deal, make another deal, and betray it again.....you do know this theory of yours is valid as the shark of the Mossad in Sharm Al Sheih, right?

And you know Arabs are semites as well, yes? it mean you need to hate them too.


The law states anyone who denies it with intent to defend the perps will be arrested and five years in prison, by merely denying it I am already defending those who allegedly did those actions. Out of pure statement, if the holocaust didn't happen, then they would be innocent.

Humanistic Judaism? what about Humanistic Christianity? or Humanistic Islam?

Zionists were over achievers what can I say? They saw a chance to take over a small government and they took it. legal international rights, call it what ever you want, they still stole the land. Like The British Empire giving the United States the green light to take land from the Native Americans.

As for hating semites, I do no such thing I am not anti-semitic nor am I a racist, I'm an atheist, to hate is to be irrational. You however... get so worked up about wanting to be a Jew and an atheist. Someone could tell me I wasn't German or Italian and I could careless, but what kind of self importance have you given to being a 'jew' that would make you so much more important than anyone else? Why would I not care about being German or Italian? Because I don't view myself as such, I view myself and others as human beings. and you as a test. It's not many times I get Jewish/Israeli's in fact if you are Israeli it would probably be the first time I've talked to one about the holocaust, having said that your self delusion is incredible.

Humanistic Judaism, I did read that, it grosses me out and it still doesn't make you a race.... OH GOD there is christian humanism! Eewww... you know what? I don't celebrate my Irish identity, my German identity, my Italian identity, my most likely British identity, my very small Native American identity I'm probably a little French too... but I don't celebrate these identities. Why? All they do is manage to divide me further from other people. I'm a human being, I celebrate that, and I celebrate all that my species has accomplished.

So why on earth would I want to celebrate the history of Christianity when I'm not even a Christian anymore?
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17-03-2012, 06:59 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
OMG, this thread has found new life.

[Image: pixelscared.jpg]

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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17-03-2012, 07:06 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(17-03-2012 06:59 PM)Dom Wrote:  OMG, this thread has found new life.

I have readied my beard.
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17-03-2012, 07:17 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(17-03-2012 06:59 PM)Dom Wrote:  OMG, this thread has found new life.

[Image: pixelscared.jpg]

Holy shit this picture is creepy. I don't know what it is. The abject terror written on the face, or the one real big eye versus the one normal sized eye.... doesn't matter. eeek.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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17-03-2012, 07:36 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(17-03-2012 11:57 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(17-03-2012 11:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  Because we have evidence for the rest. And who the fuck is 'they'?

Just like the 'evidence' for the gas chambers?

I think that piles of bodies and mass graves speak for themselves. There is plenty of photographic evidence and eyewitness accounts.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-03-2012, 07:48 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(17-03-2012 07:36 PM)Chas Wrote:  I think that piles of bodies and mass graves speak for themselves. There is plenty of photographic evidence and eyewitness accounts.

those people were victims of disease, not mass murder

Here's somebody with tuberculosis

[Image: a-tb-patient-who-is-co-infected-with-hiv-large.jpg]

Typhus, Tuberculosis, Typhoid, AND dysentery were all diseases found in the camps (repeating myself) and can cause weight loss, even severely if it's advanced.

and in such close quarters it's easy for alot of people to get sick, now at the end of the war when the allies completely shit all over the german supply lines you can imagine how difficult it would be to try and treat an epidemic, even when treatment was readily available there is still a very real chance of fatalities. So if there is no more treatment available due to allied bombing you can also imagine how many fatalities there would be. Think about it like how if the Germans had advanced into the United States and started bombing our supply lines so we wouldn't have been able to send medical supplies to those in our concentration camps holding Japanese people (when there was already a lack of medical treatment In OUR OWN camps)
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17-03-2012, 07:56 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
It's so tiresome to keep going round and round and round....

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT PEOPLE DIED OF!

THEY WERE DRAGGED OUT OF THEIR HOUSES AGAINST THEIR WILL AND PUT IN CAMPS WHERE THEY DIED BY THE MILLIONS.

HAD THEY STAYED HOME, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE DIED.

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW????????????????????

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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