Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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18-03-2012, 03:18 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(18-03-2012 03:15 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Not to be rude but Jews are Jews what else should I call them? If I called them Catholics it wouldn't make any sense.

you should call them Catholickish Big Grin



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18-03-2012, 04:09 PM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2012 04:12 PM by shiranl.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(18-03-2012 03:10 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(18-03-2012 02:55 PM)shiranl Wrote:  P.S- I'm asking you and everybody else in this forum, the nicest way I can ask, please stop using the words "Jew" and "Jews". I'm Jewish, not a Jew. my people are the Jewish people, not Jews. It freaks me out.

... As much as I support your right to be treated nice, this seems like needless hairsplitting to me Huh I mean, it's the English language... By all means be freaked out, but know that if ever I use the word Jew I don't mean it with whatever strange derogatory connotation that you seem to think it has. If anything it has positive connotations for me. As you have asked I will not use it in reference to you, (if I ever have any dialog with you Tongue ), but I see no need to modify my use of the word Wink I mean, by all means explain further, if Jewish people in general would consider that insulting then I'd like to know so that I don't make a faux pas.

(18-03-2012 03:15 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Not to be rude but Jews are Jews what else should I call them? If I called them Catholics it wouldn't make any sense.

"Jew" is the English translation for "Juden", the very same word that was written on the yellow patch. It is a curse, It is a word used to inferior my nationality. In Hebrew, for example, "Jewish" is translated as "Yehudi", "Jew" is translated as "Yehudon". You don't know Hebrew, but I guess you can understand that "don" in the end, instead of "di" makes the word very insulting. In short, it is like you would call a black man "niger". I merely asked you to add one little "ish", it is really that hard?

(and I laught about your joke, don't worry Smile )
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18-03-2012, 04:33 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
I merely asked you to add one little "ish", it is really that hard?

Rude much?

Next time all you have to do is explain why instead of just assuming I know already or that I give a shit.

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18-03-2012, 05:01 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(18-03-2012 04:09 PM)shiranl Wrote:  "Jew" is the English translation for "Juden", the very same word that was written on the yellow patch. It is a curse, It is a word used to inferior my nationality. In Hebrew, for example, "Jewish" is translated as "Yehudi", "Jew" is translated as "Yehudon". You don't know Hebrew, but I guess you can understand that "don" in the end, instead of "di" makes the word very insulting. In short, it is like you would call a black man "niger". I merely asked you to add one little "ish", it is really that hard?

I think I maybe get where you're coming from now but I think you're being a bit over-sensitive Wink I've never heard of anyone else objecting to this and we certainly do not use the word with intention to insult. Why don't your translators realise this and translate it as Yehudi? I mean - it's their choice how to translate it right? Regardless, now that you have explained, I shall modify my behaviour accordingly...
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19-03-2012, 10:18 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2012 10:22 AM by Filox.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Quote:The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים‎‎ ISO 259-3 Yhudim Israeli pronunciation [jehuˈdim]), also known as the Jewish people

Quote:jew 11222 up, 4599 down
1. Someone who practices Judaism.

2. Derogatory term for someone tight with their money or someone not very generous.
1. Kyle from southpark is a Jew

2. You jewish bastard, lend me a cig!!

Quote:Jewish is an adjective. "The Jewish people."
Jew is the noun. "Einstein was a Jew."

So, I sympathize with you, and I can see how you can be insulted, but this is now a problem of Israel and Jewish people, more than it is a problem to us, meaning, the English language is not Hebrew and the word "Jew" is a noun in English language. You see, "Jew" is a noun, "Jewish" is not, it is an adjective.

EXAMPLE: "I do not want any of you ever calling me a Croat. You shall all call me Croatish, or us Croats as Croatish people."

First of all, my Opera suggest that the word "Croatish" is misspelled, as it is. I can modify this sentence into proper English, it will look like this:

EXAMPLE2: "I do not want any of you ever calling me a Croat. You shall all call me Croatian, or us Croats as Croatian people."

Now, does the sentence above have any meaning? No. Why? Because it is raping of English language and not the proper use of it's nouns and adjectives. So, I'm sorry, You have already told me this once and I did start to use only "Jewish people" in my sentences, but over time I came to realize that it is not the proper way, that you are the only nation that demands to be treated and spoken to like that, so no, I will not do it, I will use common English, the way it is used, the way the dictionary says it, the way it is logical and normal. You will never say "American people", you all will say Americans, that is why I use "Jews", not "Jewish people". Whoever dares to call me anti-semit will feel my wrath. I'm sure, that if you care to look for these words BEFORE the WW2, that back then the word Jew was used normally, so why would it not be used today? Do I need to change my ways, or does the English language need to change, because some Nazis called you by your name and used a noun for that, not an adjective? That would mean that the Nazis have won something, they made you change the way people have to speak to you. That's just wrong.

Quote:A noun is a word used to name a person, animal, place, thing, and abstract idea.

Guess what, I think that any Jew is a person. I also think that about Croats and Americans. Also, in Croatian, we translate the word Jew literally as "Zidov" (pronaunced like Zhidov). We have no other names for your people, no other phrases or adjectives. So it is completely normally for me to use Jew. And I am sure that a lot of people here are not from English speaking countries and only God knows how they use the word and how their grammar is...

So regarding all this, I would suggest that you educate your friend and family, that the word "Jew" sound bad and Nazi, but in reality it is not. It has been vilified, but the meaning of the word has been the same since the English language existed and that word came into existence. This is something your country needs to accept and change, I'm sorry.

P.S.
Of course, you are an intelligent person, so you do not really think that ANY of us used "Jew" in a Nazi way of speaking, but in a way that I have just explained, pure and simple use of classic English language. If not, you have a problem, not us.

Peace.

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19-03-2012, 05:37 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
"Derogatory term for someone tight with their money or someone not very generous"

You should've stopped there. This is a definition of the word "Jew" in the English language, not Hebrew.

I am not accusing you on being anti-Semite, that why I thought no one will object on adding 3 letters more when adressing my nationality. This word pisses me off, like the word "niger" will piss off a black man. And I'm pretty sure you have never thought and you will never think about using that word when adressing someone, anyone, not only black people.

btw, if you would've asked to adress you as Croatish instead of Croat, I would have done that. It isn't a big deal. And it's a matter of mutual respect, as human beings, to each other.
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19-03-2012, 06:33 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(19-03-2012 05:37 PM)shiranl Wrote:  "Derogatory term for someone tight with their money or someone not very generous"

You should've stopped there. This is a definition of the word "Jew" in the English language, not Hebrew.

I am not accusing you on being anti-Semite, that why I thought no one will object on adding 3 letters more when adressing my nationality. This word pisses me off, like the word "niger" will piss off a black man. And I'm pretty sure you have never thought and you will never think about using that word when adressing someone, anyone, not only black people.

btw, if you would've asked to adress you as Croatish instead of Croat, I would have done that. It isn't a big deal. And it's a matter of mutual respect, as human beings, to each other.

Your nationality is Israeli... Niger is a country in Africa (perhaps you meant nigger which means 'trash' and black people use it all the time) Judaism is a religion, Jewish or Jew is a person who confides in that religion. Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god, therefore an Atheist can not be Jewish just as I an atheist can not be Christian as well as being an atheist.

Let's say all the Christians started saying they were a nation in exile, would that make them a race? No. A number of Jews actually served in the German Army in World War II (as many as 150,000), Jews who converted to Catholicism were not set upon because they were not Jewish anymore (although this did kind of piss the Nazis off) The Star of David is a religious symbol. Just as if the Holocaust was turned around Jews would be painting the cross on windows.

You can't choose not to be Jewish if you're born in right? Wrong, If was German all my life, married a German Wife, and we both converted to Judaism and had a son, he would still be German with a Jewish religion. Sure there are different genetics that used to make up a Jew, but after thousands of years of being exiled by the Roman Empire all over Europe I think it's fair to say they would have eventually breed with others, especially when a lot of them started to convert to Christianity. And those genetic traits were not theirs alone but as you say, Semitic can be used to describe certain ethnic regions in the Middle East. Who ironically most of them don't consider themselves Jew by 'race'.

The People of Israel were not even Jewish at one time long long ago, even before the Hittites ruled with the Egyptians over the land. When a group of people with their families left a city in Mesopotamia to travel West in search of new land and it was these people who started a religion, not a race. Because the race of people were already a part of the Middle East. This religion, I suppose you could call it Judaism, had many gods, it was a pantheism... over time Yahweh became the head god, and given more time, the rest of the gods and goddesses were forgotten. The old testament itself reflects upon this, if you read carefully enough. You'll hear a quite a few mentions of Household Gods.

But this group of people were small, and not much bigger than a tribe. And if I were to take a tribe of people and say that whoever my tribe breeds with will become a new race, it wouldn't be so. So no I am not anti-semitic for speaking the truth, you're either confused or in denial. Judaism is a religion.
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19-03-2012, 06:48 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(17-03-2012 08:19 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(17-03-2012 08:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  You're a medical doctor? You can diagnose from photographs?

No I am not a doctor, but there were doctors on the allied sides who reported 'not one of these people died of gas' and that many of the deaths were from diseases especially Typhus. So they obviously knew what they were doing.

What is it you are denying? A Plan to mass murder
Do you deny that the Nazis put a few million people into multiple concentration camps spread across their territory? nope
Do you deny that millions of people died in those camps? yes
Do you deny that their deaths are the fault of the Nazis? yes They did what they could to help those who had fallen ill, so no I do not blame the Nazis for the deaths because there was no negligence.

OK, we're done here.

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20-03-2012, 01:11 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Yes, I finally killed this thread. Big Grin

Quote:This is a definition of the word "Jew" in the English language, not Hebrew.

Yes, exactly, and we all here use English, not Hebrew. It is not a problem to use "Jewish" or "Jewish people" occasionaly, when the construction of the sentence allows it, but it is not always the case, so I use the word that is more fitted at that time, the one that sounds better and the one that is shorter. So for singular, "Jew" or "Jewish" is not that big of a deal, but for plural, "Jews" is so much shorter than to write "Jewish people" all the time. Plus, I do not concern myself with all this, I use common sense. If it bothers you THAT much, I will try to be more polite, but still, I can not garanty that I will not use Jew from time to time, because I do not think about things like that when I write.

The word "nigger" is an insult or if it is written with the capital N, then it represents the ethnicity. The word Jew is not an insult, it is writen with the capital J and thus it stands for the ethnicity. Now, this is the time where you need to see the other side of the story and try to understand my (or our) point of view, concerning English languge. I use the word nigger occasionaly, because as we already discussed this matter, the black people from USA and their urban culture has push that word (and still does) in every movie, tv show, article, everywhere, so that made the word part of the everyday use, not an insult anymore. If all the black people can use it, then it is EXTREMELY racists of them to ban me from using it. If I call myself "an idiot", who gives me the right to punch you in the face when you call me an idiot? So, for me, the word nigger has lost it's insultness, it is now a regular word, used everywhere.

Also, I have been thinking about this a lot yesterday and I came to conclusion that the only nation that has this problem solved is Canada. You can not call a Canadian any other way than, well, Canadian. There is no noun or adjective, they are the same.

Big Grin

You should become Canadian, I always said that Canada is the best place to live.

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20-03-2012, 06:47 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(19-03-2012 06:33 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(19-03-2012 05:37 PM)shiranl Wrote:  "Derogatory term for someone tight with their money or someone not very generous"

You should've stopped there. This is a definition of the word "Jew" in the English language, not Hebrew.

I am not accusing you on being anti-Semite, that why I thought no one will object on adding 3 letters more when adressing my nationality. This word pisses me off, like the word "niger" will piss off a black man. And I'm pretty sure you have never thought and you will never think about using that word when adressing someone, anyone, not only black people.

btw, if you would've asked to adress you as Croatish instead of Croat, I would have done that. It isn't a big deal. And it's a matter of mutual respect, as human beings, to each other.

Your nationality is Israeli... Niger is a country in Africa (perhaps you meant nigger which means 'trash' and black people use it all the time) Judaism is a religion, Jewish or Jew is a person who confides in that religion. Atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god, therefore an Atheist can not be Jewish just as I an atheist can not be Christian as well as being an atheist.

Let's say all the Christians started saying they were a nation in exile, would that make them a race? No. A number of Jews actually served in the German Army in World War II (as many as 150,000), Jews who converted to Catholicism were not set upon because they were not Jewish anymore (although this did kind of piss the Nazis off) The Star of David is a religious symbol. Just as if the Holocaust was turned around Jews would be painting the cross on windows.

You can't choose not to be Jewish if you're born in right? Wrong, If was German all my life, married a German Wife, and we both converted to Judaism and had a son, he would still be German with a Jewish religion. Sure there are different genetics that used to make up a Jew, but after thousands of years of being exiled by the Roman Empire all over Europe I think it's fair to say they would have eventually breed with others, especially when a lot of them started to convert to Christianity. And those genetic traits were not theirs alone but as you say, Semitic can be used to describe certain ethnic regions in the Middle East. Who ironically most of them don't consider themselves Jew by 'race'.

The People of Israel were not even Jewish at one time long long ago, even before the Hittites ruled with the Egyptians over the land. When a group of people with their families left a city in Mesopotamia to travel West in search of new land and it was these people who started a religion, not a race. Because the race of people were already a part of the Middle East. This religion, I suppose you could call it Judaism, had many gods, it was a pantheism... over time Yahweh became the head god, and given more time, the rest of the gods and goddesses were forgotten. The old testament itself reflects upon this, if you read carefully enough. You'll hear a quite a few mentions of Household Gods.

But this group of people were small, and not much bigger than a tribe. And if I were to take a tribe of people and say that whoever my tribe breeds with will become a new race, it wouldn't be so. So no I am not anti-semitic for speaking the truth, you're either confused or in denial. Judaism is a religion.

Since I do not consider you as a serius parter of discussion anymore, I will only correct your presented facts:
The only Jewish people who served together with the Nazis were part of the Finnish army. No other Jewish fought in the German army.
Since every person who was himself Jewish and eveyone who had at least one relative (up until 3 generation ) who was Jewish- were consider Jewish by the Third Reich's law- your argument that someone who converted from Judaism was safe is BS.
The Star of David is also a national symbole- take a look in Israel's flag.
And long long long long time ago there wasn't nations and races AT ALL. There was only Homosapians.
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