Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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20-03-2012, 07:13 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(20-03-2012 06:47 AM)shiranl Wrote:  Since I do not consider you as a serius parter of discussion anymore, I will only correct your presented facts:
The only Jewish people who served together with the Nazis were part of the Finnish army. No other Jewish fought in the German army.
Since every person who was himself Jewish and eveyone who had at least one relative (up until 3 generation ) who was Jewish- were consider Jewish by the Third Reich's law- your argument that someone who converted from Judaism was safe is BS.
The Star of David is also a national symbole- take a look in Israel's flag.
And long long long long time ago there wasn't nations and races AT ALL. There was only Homosapians.

Is that right?

Here's a Nazi Jew from Germany.
[Image: righitgoldberg.jpg]
Werner Goldberg is his name

For more like hm visit this page Nazis who incidentally happen to be Jewish

They might not always have been safe no, but it still (according to someone who would believe in the holocaust) saved many lives. And upon what nation's flag did the Jews have to hang the Star of David in 1942?

"Under traditional Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother, no matter whom the father may have been, is Jewish…. I am confused…. Who is a Jew? What is a Jew? When are you a Jew? What if you do not want to be a Jew? Can we choose?"
William Rabinowitz

Doesn't sound like much of a race to me, though it does help back up my previous statement about the mama and the papa converting to Judaism... except it totally doesn't need the papa, only the mama. Which she would have been German before, but now that she converted to Judaism her children would be Jewish to.
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20-03-2012, 07:21 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Quote:Jews who converted to Catholicism were not set upon because they were not Jewish anymore

What a piece of crock!

Everyone in Germany had to prove that there was no Jewish blood at all in their lineage. A minimum of 3 generations back. Records were often kept by the churches, everyone had to go to the church they grew up in and find the records there. If it got blown up - tough shit.

You just have not the slightest idea what it was like in Germany then.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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20-03-2012, 08:19 AM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2012 08:26 AM by Filox.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Yeah, unfortunately he is quite misinformed and his sources are extremely vague and strange.

Back to you shiranl, you just made a grammatical error because you insist on using only "Jewish" word.

Quote:No other Jewish fought in the German army.

In my school, my English professor would mark the word Jewish as wrong. There are 2 other very similar ways to write this down, so feel free to choose.

Option 1: No other Jew (or Jews) fought in the German army.
Option 2: No other Jewish person (or persons) fought in the German army.

They are both grammatically correct, but yours is not. So you see, I may not be 100% right, but I do have a point and am at least half right. That counts for something, doesn't it?

Smile

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21-03-2012, 12:50 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(20-03-2012 07:21 AM)Dom Wrote:  
Quote:Jews who converted to Catholicism were not set upon because they were not Jewish anymore

What a piece of crock!

Everyone in Germany had to prove that there was no Jewish blood at all in their lineage. A minimum of 3 generations back. Records were often kept by the churches, everyone had to go to the church they grew up in and find the records there. If it got blown up - tough shit.

You just have not the slightest idea what it was like in Germany then.

What about the Nazi Jews then? you're right though, I don't have the slightest idea what it was like in Germany back then. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Because everything I thought I knew about this time, has come under question. I can no longer take anything at face value, nor will I take things at face value. Neither should you.
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21-03-2012, 04:26 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
I'm not sure this helps but...
[Image: 000006_racechart.gif]

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21-03-2012, 04:59 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(20-03-2012 07:13 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(20-03-2012 06:47 AM)shiranl Wrote:  Since I do not consider you as a serius parter of discussion anymore, I will only correct your presented facts:
The only Jewish people who served together with the Nazis were part of the Finnish army. No other Jewish fought in the German army.
Since every person who was himself Jewish and eveyone who had at least one relative (up until 3 generation ) who was Jewish- were consider Jewish by the Third Reich's law- your argument that someone who converted from Judaism was safe is BS.
The Star of David is also a national symbole- take a look in Israel's flag.
And long long long long time ago there wasn't nations and races AT ALL. There was only Homosapians.

Is that right?

Here's a Nazi Jew from Germany.
[Image: righitgoldberg.jpg]
Werner Goldberg is his name

For more like hm visit this page Nazis who incidentally happen to be Jewish

They might not always have been safe no, but it still (according to someone who would believe in the holocaust) saved many lives. And upon what nation's flag did the Jews have to hang the Star of David in 1942?

"Under traditional Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother, no matter whom the father may have been, is Jewish…. I am confused…. Who is a Jew? What is a Jew? When are you a Jew? What if you do not want to be a Jew? Can we choose?"
William Rabinowitz

Doesn't sound like much of a race to me, though it does help back up my previous statement about the mama and the papa converting to Judaism... except it totally doesn't need the papa, only the mama. Which she would have been German before, but now that she converted to Judaism her children would be Jewish to.

You realize say "Nazi Jew" is equivalent to say "homophob homo", yes?
And I'm not even going to respond to the photo of the "Nazi Jew".................................

[Image: Hiszio.jpg]
this is the symbole of the World Zionist Organization- was established in 1897

[Image: Khlogo.jpg]
this is the symbole of the United Israel Apeal- was established in 1920.

[Image: Jewish_agency_Logo.PNG]
this is the symbole of the Jewish Agency- was established in 1929


enough, or do you want more?

I didn't claim the Jewish people are a race. Infact, we absolutely are not a race. We are part of the Semite race, which includes many nationalities in itself (Arabs, Assyrians, Arameans, etc, etc).
Jewish people are a nation, which includes, among other things, a common religion. I chose not to believe in god and not practice this religion, because I can. Unlike common language, history and culture- I was born to them, and I have no choice but embrace them to my heart.
Now, on the fourth time- you will not determine my identity. I really hope that we will not have a fifth time, because it's bordering on mental retardation.

Filox- I give a damn about grammaticly correct English.
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21-03-2012, 05:15 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(21-03-2012 04:59 AM)shiranl Wrote:  I didn't claim the Jewish people are a race. Infact, we absolutely are not a race. We are part of the Semite race, which includes many nationalities in itself (Arabs, Assyrians, Arameans, etc, etc).
Jewish people are a nation, which includes, among other things, a common religion. I chose not to believe in god and not practice this religion, because I can. Unlike common language, history and culture- I was born to them, and I have no choice but embrace them to my heart.
Now, on the fourth time- you will not determine my identity. I really hope that we will not have a fifth time, because it's bordering on mental retardation.

Filox- I give a damn about grammaticly correct English.

Honey once you're an atheist you don't have to embrace anything. And about that whole being 'anti-Semitic' hypothetically speaking, just because someone hates Jews (which I do not) doesn't make them 'anti-Semtici' they'd have to hate all the Semites, not just Jews/Israelis. By your definition, a lot of Arabs are Semites, yet a lot of Arabs hate Jews (true story) so if that were the case then just because they would hate Jews (which you assumed I did by simply denying the holocaust) you would call them anti-Semitic. Yet they themselves would be Semitic and I'm assuming they don't hate themselves so they wouldn't really be Anti-Semitic, just anti-Jewish. (which I am not)

Further more, the Star of David is a religious symbol, just like the Crucifix is, the Christians use it all the time for their stuff the Jews would do the same.
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21-03-2012, 05:37 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(21-03-2012 05:15 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(21-03-2012 04:59 AM)shiranl Wrote:  I didn't claim the Jewish people are a race. Infact, we absolutely are not a race. We are part of the Semite race, which includes many nationalities in itself (Arabs, Assyrians, Arameans, etc, etc).
Jewish people are a nation, which includes, among other things, a common religion. I chose not to believe in god and not practice this religion, because I can. Unlike common language, history and culture- I was born to them, and I have no choice but embrace them to my heart.
Now, on the fourth time- you will not determine my identity. I really hope that we will not have a fifth time, because it's bordering on mental retardation.

Filox- I give a damn about grammaticly correct English.

Honey once you're an atheist you don't have to embrace anything. And about that whole being 'anti-Semitic' hypothetically speaking, just because someone hates Jews (which I do not) doesn't make them 'anti-Semtici' they'd have to hate all the Semites, not just Jews/Israelis. By your definition, a lot of Arabs are Semites, yet a lot of Arabs hate Jews (true story) so if that were the case then just because they would hate Jews (which you assumed I did by simply denying the holocaust) you would call them anti-Semitic. Yet they themselves would be Semitic and I'm assuming they don't hate themselves so they wouldn't really be Anti-Semitic, just anti-Jewish. (which I am not)

Further more, the Star of David is a religious symbol, just like the Crucifix is, the Christians use it all the time for their stuff the Jews would do the same.

1.Don't call me honey.
2. Because there is an atheist leader who determine what atheist should or shouldn't do?
3. Anti-Semitism is a modern term used to describe hate of Jewish people just because. claiming anti-Semitism isn't real and living because there are Arabs who hate Jewish people is making your self an idiot.
4. by my definition all the Arabs are semitic.
5. A person who doesn't hate my people don't need to mention it 3 times in one paragraph. And yes- denying the Holocaust is an anti-Semitic deed.
6. I didn't say it isn't a religious symbol, I'm not retarted. I said it is also a national symbol. notice the difference.
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21-03-2012, 05:53 AM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(21-03-2012 05:37 AM)shiranl Wrote:  1.Don't call me honey.
2. Because there is an atheist leader who determine what atheist should or shouldn't do?
3. Anti-Semitism is a modern term used to describe hate of Jewish people just because. claiming anti-Semitism isn't real and living because there are Arabs who hate Jewish people is making your self an idiot.
4. by my definition all the Arabs are semitic.
5. A person who doesn't hate my people don't need to mention it 3 times in one paragraph. And yes- denying the Holocaust is an anti-Semitic deed.
6. I didn't say it isn't a religious symbol, I'm not retarted. I said it is also a national symbol. notice the difference.

1. alright sweetheart
2. nope, that's just the freedom that comes along with atheism
3-4. But the Jews aren't the only Semites so how could they possibly claim a person who solely hates them (which is not me) and not other Semites be anti-Semitic if he/she is only hating one group of people not based on their ethnicity?
5. If that's the case I'm sure denying the god Yahweh or El is an anti-Semitic deed to then. It's not anti-semitic if you question or deny the holocaust because it's not hatred of the jews. It's simply an outlook on a historical or non-historical event.
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21-03-2012, 07:20 AM (This post was last modified: 21-03-2012 07:23 AM by Dom.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Quote: Jewish people are a nation, which includes, among other things, a common religion.

Ok now, that is confusing. What about all the Jewish folk who live in other nations? There still are large Jewish communities all over the world today, including in Germany.

You call them Jewish people, right? And they have all been around since long before Hitler or Israel, living in many countries and speaking many languages.

I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread, I strongly dislike this thread. It is just riddled with inaccuracies.

I do like listening to Shiranl because I always find it interestig how people from other places see the world and themselves in it. I have never been to Israel, I should have taken the opportunity to hop across the water when I was in Cyprus. I strongly believe that, if you really want to know a place and it's culture, you have to go there in person and see for yourself. All else is and will always be just hear-say.

Shiranl, we likely have a very different view of the holocaust, I am German, and I see it as having inflicted great harm on all Germans living there at the time and with Germans I include Jiddish, as well as Bavarians and Westphalians and you see where I am going with this.

At the time, the Jiddish were living in Germany the same way people from all the German states were, people with different customs and dialects and history and ethnicity living as one nation. The Jiddish, together with a lot of Jewish people from other European nations, made up some 50% of victims. The other 50% were largely German plus a lot of prisoners of war from many nations. Hitler picked the Jiddish as a public scapegoat and as cover to kill and/or send to concentration camps whomever he pleased.

It was a horrendous time to live (or die) in, and it destroyed Germany and all the inhabitants, if not by death so then as a nation and in spirit. I have always seen the Jiddish as just another German ethnic group. The dialect is very close to Swabian, and strong dialects were predominant in those days (they are starting to meld somewhat today as the Germans move more).

There are still a lot of Jiddish living in Germany today. I still see them as Germans, just like I see Prussians and Bavarians as Germans.

So, with the very confusing terminology, what do you call the Jiddish, or the Jewish people living in other nations than yourself, like in America, if American Jews (the correct dictionary term) is insulting?

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