Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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23-05-2012, 05:17 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(23-05-2012 05:01 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Have you looked into the backgrounds of the people who did the 'research?.
Doing a little digging shows that many of them are neonazis or associate with nazi groups. So I would take any of the 'evidence' with a great deal of skepticism.

These people clearly have an agenda. It's the equivalent of a theist claiming to have proof of god. They use misinterpretation, falsified results, weak arguments etc as 'evidence' of their claims. It's really not worth any time looking at it.

And the people who beleive them show a level of gullibility usually reserved for the very religious.
How can you fake a fake gas chamber?
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23-05-2012, 05:19 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
You just answered your own question.

Behold the power of the force!
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23-05-2012, 05:27 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(23-05-2012 05:19 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  You just answered your own question.
look at dachau the report explicitly said that the gas was fed through the shower heads, when it was found that there were no pipes leading to the shower heads and all that was there when they were removed was just a ceiling. It's clear that someone blatantly lied about that part of the holocaust, and more so it brings into question why someone would report that if it weren't true. Unless they were trying to frame someone, now anyone in their right mind would have removed the shower heads during the investigation to see the pipes. But they OBVIOUSLY did not do that here. But the kicker is that they say they did. Because they themselves said that there were pipes there.

When they were caught in these lie they created another lie, saying instead, that the nazi's poured zyklon b pellets through the side of the walls and that the body heat would make the pellets turn into a gas form. I don't know about you. But the idea of shaking gas canisters like a salt and pepper shaker really doesn't fancy my jimbo.
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23-05-2012, 05:35 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(23-05-2012 04:52 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(23-05-2012 04:47 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Yeah, it was all one big conspiracy by everyone involved to discredit the Nazis, Sage. Just like all biologists, palentologists, geologists, zoologists, botanists, astronomers, and physicists all got together and conspired to create the theory of evolution just to discredit and smear the truth about Yahweh and his Son, Jesus Christ. What a steaming pile of crap!

Have you ever wondered why there are only a few wing nuts like David Irving and Ernst Zundel peddling this BS while an overwhelming amount of evidence exists to disprove their claims? Also, have you ever bothered to investigate the backgrounds on these men, their reasoning, their testing methodologie, their motivations etc.?
As long as the science gets done and it gets done right I don't care about their backgrounds, their personal beliefs, or their motivations. I'm not a bigot you know. And there are a lot of people who don't believe in the holocaust, you should go on youtube to meet some of them and what they have to say about it, I would think that this 'overwhelming' amount of evidence would make there be less holocaust deniers wouldn't you? But it's unfair to say 'overwhelming amount' when you have provided none for your claims.
Well, except for this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_o...st_denial,

And all it's supporting documentation.

And then there's this
http://www.adl.org/holocaust/introduction.asp

Also the Nizkor Project
http://www.nizkor.org/

Also this

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?...d=10007271

A gold mine of information on the Nuremburg Trials

http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/doc...t=overview

Critical review of the Leuchter Report

http://malcolmnicholson.wordpress.com/th...-part-one/

I can keep going....

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23-05-2012, 05:38 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(23-05-2012 04:52 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  I'm not a bigot you know.
Well, that's a fucking relief.

And, speaking of things that make you feel better, neither are the KKK or the neonazi groups that endorse this "research", per their own claims. They are just interested in the "truth".

Seriously, I can't believe you're all indulging this stupidity.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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23-05-2012, 05:40 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Michael Shermer outlines the way in which we can tell the Holocaust happened through what he calls a 'convergence of evidence'. Taking each piece on their own and no, we cannot prove that the Holocaust occured. Taking each piece of evidence and using them to build a greater picture of what occurred, however, we can see that it did indeed occur.

Holocaust deniers (I will not dignify such people with the title 'revisionists' as they would like to be known) can only conduct small-scale attacks on solitary pieces of evidence, often resorting to logical fallacies to do so. They fail to see the bigger picture. Their objectivity on the issue can very often be called into question; most of the big deniers have been linked time and time again to anti-Semitic groups and far-right extremists.

You're also using David Irving as a reliable source. I'm afraid I lost any and all respect I might have had for your ideas on the issue at that point.

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But the greatest part of mankind float betwixt vice and virtue."
- David Hume
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23-05-2012, 05:50 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(23-05-2012 05:35 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(23-05-2012 04:52 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  As long as the science gets done and it gets done right I don't care about their backgrounds, their personal beliefs, or their motivations. I'm not a bigot you know. And there are a lot of people who don't believe in the holocaust, you should go on youtube to meet some of them and what they have to say about it, I would think that this 'overwhelming' amount of evidence would make there be less holocaust deniers wouldn't you? But it's unfair to say 'overwhelming amount' when you have provided none for your claims.
Well, except for this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_o...st_denial,

And all it's supporting documentation.

And then there's this
http://www.adl.org/holocaust/introduction.asp

Also the Nizkor Project
http://www.nizkor.org/

Also this

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?...d=10007271

A gold mine of information on the Nuremburg Trials

http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/doc...t=overview

Critical review of the Leuchter Report

http://malcolmnicholson.wordpress.com/th...-part-one/

I can keep going....
Did you really just post 3 links dealing with holocaust denial and not evidence for the holocaust itself? Dodgy

The Nuremberg trials did have a lot of forgeries, plus documents would have very little to do with the physical evidence of the holocaust. Though they would be good to incriminate people for war crimes. I want your physical evidence. Not reviews.
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23-05-2012, 06:13 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(23-05-2012 05:50 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(23-05-2012 05:35 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Well, except for this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_o...st_denial,

And all it's supporting documentation.

And then there's this
http://www.adl.org/holocaust/introduction.asp

Also the Nizkor Project
http://www.nizkor.org/

Also this

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?...d=10007271

A gold mine of information on the Nuremburg Trials

http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/php/doc...t=overview

Critical review of the Leuchter Report

http://malcolmnicholson.wordpress.com/th...-part-one/

I can keep going....
Did you really just post 3 links dealing with holocaust denial and not evidence for the holocaust itself? Dodgy

The Nuremberg trials did have a lot of forgeries, plus documents would have very little to do with the physical evidence of the holocaust. Though they would be good to incriminate people for war crimes. I want your physical evidence. Not reviews.
You seem to think that the burden of proof lies with us. You're the one making the extravagant claims; the burden of proof lies with you, and so far all you've managed to do is roll out the usual Holocaust denier drivel that has been proven false time and time again.

"Heaven and hell suppose two distinct species of men, the good and the bad.

But the greatest part of mankind float betwixt vice and virtue."
- David Hume
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23-05-2012, 06:26 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(23-05-2012 05:40 PM)ockhams_razorboy Wrote:  You're also using David Irving as a reliable source.

A naive girl from my highschool actually based her History exam paper on David Irving´s website and the resources she found there.

Her history teacher is generally regarded as very good and the University of Aarhus even uses her as an external examiner when they are cut short...
The girl got -3 for her paper and her defense of it at the examination. Our scale of grades goes from -3 to 12 (7 being average) and usually you only get -3 when you don´t show up to the examination. The reason she scored so low was that she failed to utilize one of the most basic and important disciplines in historical research; Source criticism.

So I guess that is what happens when a not too bright person makes a google search and presses the wrong link... Sometimes people can get so confirmation biased that they are trapped forever.
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23-05-2012, 06:37 PM (This post was last modified: 23-05-2012 06:55 PM by TheArcticSage.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(23-05-2012 06:13 PM)ockhams_razorboy Wrote:  You seem to think that the burden of proof lies with us. You're the one making the extravagant claims; the burden of proof lies with you, and so far all you've managed to do is roll out the usual Holocaust denier drivel that has been proven false time and time again.
The defense does not have to prove that their client murdered 6,000,000 people.

and Gaest, David Irving is but one of many who sources I've used in this article, he is not my only source.

Edit: ALSO, which is easier? To discount the person or to discount his claims? Discounting the person doesn't mean you've discounted their claims.
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