Was the Holocaust... a lie?
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10-03-2012, 03:56 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 03:38 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  If you have any doubt just go to google and search Evidence of Holocaust and look at the documentations, accounts, and photos they have at the United States Holocaust Museum. It's got a whole lot of photos and I couldn't sit there and keep looking for long.

I know the same story you do, plus one you probably don't. Which would be the argument against the holocaust happening.

@hughs

Many conspiracy theories have tons of evidence against them, that doesn't mean they all do. In fact the conspiracies that hit close to home are often made to sound ridiculous to discredit any personal investigation into the matter.

How could the holocaust have not happened? 6 million Jews died! There are concentration camps! GAS CHAMBERS! (which have been proven to be soviet 'replicas' made after the war)

By people saying that, they are already feeding off the assumption that 6 million Jews died and the intentional predisposition to assume that the concentration camps were used to mass exterminate Jews. Also they use pictures to try enforce this idea but many pictures just show jews in ghettos, jews in a barracks, jews in concentration camps, or dead jews. (millions of ways a person could die) but again they feed off the the fact that many people will just assume that these people died by intentional means by the nazi's. Which could only be accounted if the photo shows nazi's shooting them. Which then we must ask why were they shot? many of us will just assume that it's because they are jews. But could they not have been shot for a crime they were believed to have done? such as murder or espionage? remember african americans also were charged with crimes they didn't commit and were subsequently executed in america as well.
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10-03-2012, 04:15 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 03:34 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Exactly! Point out inconsistencies in his evidence, present counter evidence, but don't just throw stones and assert that he's wrong.

And the point of view I've adopted here is exactly the same as the point of view most people adopt on other topics in this section. Any conspiracy theory has mounds of evidence against it and very little for, yet everyone still encourages pursuing them and considering the possibility that there is something to them. It seems that because this is a more controversial issue people won't apply the same prinicples. This is what I don't understand.

I did......I pointed out inconsistencies with one of the vids he showed (as an example).
The facts of which are freely available and, should he look, easily found...
Having done many years research.... he said. He then asked me to point him in the right direction for this information - do you see the problem with that ?

Do you see how that usually goes.....?

As for the other topics, unfortunately I have not read them all However I would still contend that the jewish genocide of WW2 is not within the purview of the thread title.

Is there a thread or post about the possible doubt of gravity, the earth being spheroidal or misinformation about tides, the existence of dogs or the doubt that human sphincters always point down ????

It's not that it is controversial, its the fact that it is a gross distortion of the known facts.
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10-03-2012, 04:24 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
Taken from the summary of this website: http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar01.html

"Revisionists" often claim, correctly, that the burden of proof is on historians. The proof, of course, has been a matter of public record since late 1945, and is available in libraries around the world. The burden has been met, many, many times over. You've just seen a brief presentation of some of the highlights of that immense body of proof; much more is readily available.

I know nothing about this website, just thought I would google it and post the first site that showed up.

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
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10-03-2012, 04:34 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
I will say these photos aren't very pleasing for many to look at but I suppose that is what would be expected upon this topic.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_ph.php?MediaId=3720

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_ph.php?MediaId=4059

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_ph.php?MediaId=4056

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_ph.php?MediaId=4055

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_ph.php?MediaId=3756
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10-03-2012, 05:08 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
How about this one? What really strikes me is how even the germans on trial didn't deny it, they just tried to deflect responsibility. Any idea why that might be? They also claim to be acting under the legitimate orders of the state. I have a sneaking suspicion that they may not have bothered to deny it because it was pointless, you have victims and perpetrators saying it happened, you have german records and testimonies of some quite high up people as well as some private documentation of the same people. In the light of overwhelming evidence (not forgetting the fact they were there) it was pointless to argue the case.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/es/article.php?...d=10007271

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
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10-03-2012, 05:08 PM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 05:15 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 02:03 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(10-03-2012 01:58 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  Any record can be faked. Therefore all such proofs of all the other massacres and atrocities in the history of the world are equally suspect. Nothing we read or learn in school or hear from our grandparents is true. Including whatever evidence there is to contradict the evidence we suspect.
Then - I repeat - why question it? Any of it? Whatever you discover is as likely to be false as true and you will never, ever know.

So why pursue any conspiracy theory then? The moon landing, 9/11, the War in Iraq. Why have this forum section at all? You seem to be suggesting that it is pointless to challenge the official version of events in a situation. If that's what you are asserting then it applies to all situations, you don't get to pick and choose.

Of course i get to pick and choose, as do you, as does everyone. Indeed, we must pick and choose, because none of us can investigate every instance of suspicious history.
I'm far too polite to suggest anything for you, though i might make an exception for ArcticSage; just saying that, if you or he has chosen to disbelieve such a large mountain of evidence, there is nothing left to say or show that will convince you.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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10-03-2012, 05:27 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
I'm just wondering what the point of holocaust denial is? Where's the vested interest? You're going up against this mountain of evidence with only your puny little sword of possible truth. I can think of a thousand more things I'd rather waste my time on... therefore I think there must be a special reason why you want the holocaust to have not happened, in order for you to have this manic desire to convince others of the same.

So what will knowing the truth of the matter re the holocaust gain us? We will know that the government is screwing with us? We will clear the undeserved bad name of the nazis?

I could be nicer but I'm not happy 'cos I went and looked at some of those photos Sad Fuck humans and their atrocities Angry
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10-03-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 05:27 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'm just wondering what the point of holocaust denial is? Where's the vested interest? You're going up against this mountain of evidence with only your puny little sword of possible truth. I can think of a thousand more things I'd rather waste my time on... therefore I think there must be a special reason why you want the holocaust to have not happened, in order for you to have this manic desire to convince others of the same.

So what will knowing the truth of the matter re the holocaust gain us? We will know that the government is screwing with us? We will clear the undeserved bad name of the nazis?

I could be nicer but I'm not happy 'cos I went and looked at some of those photos Sad Fuck humans and their atrocities Angry

The government is screwing with you regardless of if the holocaust happened or not. Those pictures are nothing compared to what I've seen in others, forgive me for not being emotional about it. Their deaths were quick and relatively painless when compared to others, regardless of which side your on.

Rather you should be emotionless when you make decisions, that way your decisions aren't corrupted by your feelings. The only ones who are open to the other side of the holocaust or any atrocity would be those who merely seek truth. There is nothing I gain in learning truth... but the freedom to see the world without lies clouding my vision.

I want a pure reality, a reality which I know no lies. It's why I became an atheist.
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10-03-2012, 06:05 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 05:48 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  The government is screwing with you regardless of if the holocaust happened or not. Those pictures are nothing compared to what I've seen in others, forgive me for not being emotional about it. Their deaths were quick and relatively painless when compared to others, regardless of which side your on.

Rather you should be emotionless when you make decisions, that way your decisions aren't corrupted by your feelings. The only ones who are open to the other side of the holocaust or any atrocity would be those who merely seek truth. There is nothing I gain in learning truth... but the freedom to see the world without lies clouding my vision.

I want a pure reality, a reality which I know no lies. It's why I became an atheist.

Might be worth considering.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/0...prophetic/

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
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10-03-2012, 06:08 PM
RE: Was the Holocaust... a lie?
(10-03-2012 05:35 AM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  @Dom

Nice story, but it has nothing to do with my topic.

It has everything to do with it.

There is no way to determine actual numbers, but many, many people were taken out of their houses never to return. And it wasn't just jewish people either.

There was not a person in my parent's generation who didn't know some people that disappeared after being hauled off. That's how the Nazis stayed in power for that long - fear. Pure, unadulterated fear that what happened to your neighbor or friend or relative will happen to you.

We will never know concise numbers.

If they disappear forever, one can assume them dead. Would be a heck of a coincidence if they all died from natural causes while being kept someplace.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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